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big camera and remember him yeah he was our prime minister wasn't it you might ask what's he been doing for the last three years well sitting in a shepherd's hut in his garden in Oxfordshire writing his memoirs and they're being splashed today in the Sunday Times and elsewhere interestingly Cameron says that he doesn't really understand why so many people in the Conservative Party wanted to vote to leave the European Union he didn't understand it then he doesn't understand it now he thinks that a second referendum is a possibility like all former leaders just trying to be helpful of course to the current leader but he really uses the book just to lash out you know and he lashes out at Michael Gove calls him a populist a foam flecked Farage East a bit that sport Michael goes breakfast this morning he lashes out at Dominic Cummings and me he says there's something of the night about us that's not very original is it I thought when our Widdecombe did it was rather more effective but he saves the good stuff and I guess this is where he wants to really sell the book he saves it for Boris Johnson he basically says that Boris is not really a lever he made a decision to back believe side because it was to his own advantage for his career he also says that when he talked to Boris about this Boris said this is during the referendum campaign not after that Boris is looking for a fresh negotiation following a leave vote backed by a second referendum so he's casting you know real doubts on Boris Johnson's motives and I'm asking you know are are Cameron's comments fair do they damage the Conservative Party which already is having the most huge I was going to say internal rail but it's actually pretty public isn't it if you think about it well I thought to begin with I'd get an opinion from somebody who was a Conservative Party contributor to conservative homes I mean he's written and talked about the Conservative Party for many many years so I asked Harry fibs you know what are you made of David Cameron's memoirs oh look I think it's a shame because a couple of things one is that actually i think david cameron achieved rather a lot as Prime Minister in terms of reforms of me improving state schools and welfare reform and it's and it's a shame that he'll only be as far as we can tell at the moment remembered for this result which he did want over the referendum so I think it said I think it's a pity if that's if that's the only thing he's remembered for and the other thing is it's it's a shame that he seems to be full of apologies and and misery over calling the referendum because it was a lot of people obviously feel that it was so it was the right thing to do for him to call the referendum and the mistake he really made was to get we were to fail to get any decent substantive renegotiations out of it and I think if he if he got a proper tangible renegotiation before the referendum then it could have been a different result yeah and he's still very clearly doesn't understand why so many conservatives voted to leave he just doesn't get it didn't get it then doesn't get it now and then he's hinting that perhaps there ought to be a second referendum I mean does this put him on the side of Tory rebels I think that it would be in terms of in terms of the referendum campaign of the person who was most clear and most emphatic about saying this is a once in a generation decision your verdict because every party loyalist he was trying to defend what David Cameron is written in this book and I won't even attempt to do that I think it's self-serving nonsense written by a prime minister who was a total failure who now appears to feel sorry for himself busy lashing out at everybody he's been quiet for the last three years ahead of this book and I hope he's gonna be quiet for at least three more years after the publication of this book are the comments that he's made fair and reasonable or is it actually just yet more division and trouble for the tourists when he hints that a second referendum may be on the cars and it's wall-to-wall this morning radio and television everywhere journalists talking to journalists about this book but hey over to you this is LBC what are you the great British public make of this I gonna start in belfast by speaking to albert is a new call a good morning Albert good morning Nigel can you hear me I'm speaking on my mobile I certainly can far away first of all I'd like to express my anger on these Twitter's who have just hijacked our Democratic votes and three years back I'm totally totally disregarded our wishes love this one thing and Albert it stopped I mean it's Sunday morning at 10 o'clock and you're using a word like trace as very strong word isn't it hey well that's what the are Nigel they're surrounding ourselves into a foreign power which we have never voted for and from a personal point of view Nigel my granddad for the two world wars he didn't fight to unelected European dictatorships to be another one so why Albert while but are so many people living in Northern Ireland you know really and I think in some cases genuinely concerned what you know I understand the arguments you make completely of course and I feel them in my heart myself what is it that makes so many people still be attracted to this EU so that they've behaved in ways in Parliament we've never even contemplated what is it about the EU our but what what grip does it have on people I personally think they're blinded to what really stands for light or if they deadly did the research they were finding what they eat usually does stand for and basically to close get a spirit mantle the EU is the fourth reich in my opinion it's the love child of our old Hitler well well well Albert it is certainly I actually think it's a right we former communism is my view but but we've all got different views and yours yours are very strong are you worried out but are you worried about the Irish border I know I do believe we'll sort of edge some way and if we can send a man to the moon 50 years ago I do believe we'll find us as no as you ticket of look right okay no that's a very reasonable point and finally Albert and in a few short words sum up what you think about David Cameron I know but he's just a beast man his views are irrelevant he's just throwing his toys out of the pram Nigel beautiful now they say one thing night so he's just typical of the liberal elite like iscap island parliament who still can't get it why we folded leaves I think man is totally out of touch with reality Albert I'm gonna leave it there well Albert thinks Cameron is totally out of touch with reality a member of the liberal elite and disconnected from all three voters and I think Albert's right but if you think Albert and I are wrong you tell me why oh no three four five six oh six oh nine seven three you're listening to the Sunday edition of Nigel Farage show here on ABC and it's 17 minutes past 10:00 LBC Shelagh Fogarty Monday to Friday from 1:00 p.m. Frank born here raised here marching on behalf of his parents son from Portugal one from Spain David Cameron's book for the record will be in good book shops near you very soon it is being sterilized he lashes out at virtually everybody and says he doesn't understand why we voted for brexit I'm asking is he being fair and what do you think of him and I am being bombarded with messages on Facebook YouTube and elsewhere Cameron spent nine million pounds of our money without my permission on the leaflet says Stephen Craig says he should keep his head down he was a weak useless Prime Minister his new book should be called running man Georgina says he's crawled out of the woodwork realizing that his bank balances lost some money hence the book Cameron is bitter and twisting says Susan from Leeds Nigel it isn't isn't Cameron the one who said we should honor the result of the referendum Phil from North Wales he was the most emphatic of our political leaders making it clear that it was our decision and whatever we decided would be implemented and he has the audacity today to suggest that perhaps there'll be a second referendum because Parliament cannot sort this out I'm sure someone out there thinks that he's a wonderful fella and it's gonna be a great book and they'll be running down to Q to buy it this week but I'm struggling to find them let's see whether that person is Tony a new caller from Manchester good morning Tony good so have you got have you got a good word to say about our former prime minister a coward yes he he said it was a once-in-a-lifetime choice and the referendum with bill pals and then he quit unless there's an absolute limbo and I just want to say that now he comes out three and a half years later and just wants to you know slave boys Johnson and yourself and every lever and then once a second referendum at I just think he is a hypocrite and a coward making you know well it's it's a strong opinion Tony but I'm getting that the feeling from my message board that it's an opinion that is shared by quite a lot of people I mean in a sense Tony if he'd stayed above the fray if he'd stayed neutral in the referendum Azula I'm the Prime Minister I've got my own views but you guys go and sort it out he wouldn't have had any shit he wouldn't have any should have worked father for the country being Prime Minister is far but Tony you know I'm glad they guess you with you here because he absolutely believed him remain he had been the wrong person to take us forward wouldn't he well I look I know afterwards was a catastrophe but I actually think it was right that he resigned I genuinely do III think he involved himself he rolled his sleeves up he even managed to get President Obama to fly across the Atlantic to support his campaign I think I I think you had to resign that's just my feeling but Tony thank you for your call and some very very strong opinions here cameron also said leaving on a no deal would not be that bad I get by SMS that's true he did say that I've no doubt now he plays that very differently let's try Jennifer who's calling revealing good morning Jennifer good morning Nigel people should not bother even to buy the thing mister Jennifer sorry he's a former prime minister is only did this voted to leave to further his career well when everybody thought that their vote was going to be remained how could Boris been thinking of furthering his career because no one this is what the problems been everyone is shell-shocked about the result and when he says about all these ministers like Michael Govan and all those when he's denigrating them he's denigrating the British people because it's the British people's folk music all counted you know I was like when he left it was almost like Churchill walking away when he thought we were going to lose the war instead of you know working towards a proper result and I I just feel so these absurd it again before with you and I'll say it again what vested interests of these people got in the EU that when it all collapses they want with Britain to still be in it to help prop it up they've all got something going on to do with EU that they think it's also wonderful well I mean a cynic would say Jennifer that failed national politicians nearly always manage to find a good berth in Brussels whether it's as European Commissioner or whether it's working in some way for an advisory committee there is no doubt that the European Union has been the most fantastic safety net for career class politicians I'm not gonna go any further than that but that is senator Jennifer thank you for your call up to Liverpool to speak to Steve from fresca good morning Steve your mana tonight you'll hope you will I am that subway from that but good morning now everybody is really really really slacking off David Cameron do you have anything nice to say about him Steve yes I mean I'd be very interesting Steve I've actually the last week spent a lot of time a long way from London yeah away from the Metropolitan bubble and I think that Westminster politicians and media are under estimating just how angry people are in the country with the whole political class and indeed from xi yi you know from 11 o'clock I'm gonna debate that but sustained come on give us the defense of David Cameron's position well obviously was pushed into the referendum by a good and the UK momentum that was building yes and I think had he not call that referendum it was going to obviously cause some serious issues at future general elections and he thought he would basically he would shoot the UK Fox by doing so well in reality he was completely inept in my even that decision because it's obviously it's blown the lid off Pandora's Box and as you say regularly the genie is out of the bottle now so I thank the Eva Cameron forgive us the opportunity to go ahead with the referendum and for what's obviously resulted in a complete betrayal by the what is supposed to be our Parliament when it comes to the will of the people 498 MPs voted for article 50 now the telling us they didn't know what they were voting for so we've other completely inept Parliament and they would only give him one job in this Parliament all it was was to make sure that you know we went through the article 50 process we leave with or without a negotiated deal and they failed to do that so I thank David Cameron from the bottom of my heart and right I'm gonna get a huge poster and put it on my wall that was what he feared Luke it was on the March wasn't it you know it was on the March and it finished up with it winning the European elections winning two parliamentary by-elections getting phenomenal performances in County Council elections you know and going on to win seats in in the London Assembly the Welsh etcetera so he didn't want to do it but he did it and gave us the chance and for that Steve Steven Prescott thanks him let's go to Tunbridge Wells to speak to Dan who's a new corner good morning Dan good morning I'm practically the only person in Samba 12 she wants to leave [Laughter] that makes me quite unpopular with all your work in terms of the job that you don't really want to do but I do that's great yeah no I mean I thought I have to say you know we voted leave Cameron went we got a new prime minister she made that Lancaster House speech and I thought it was done sit down but hey I'm back I know we don't want to see you back but we do thank you you're the you're the right kind of politician one who wants to do himself heart my job now what about camera what about this book I mean it's just it's just a huge wind isn't it yeah I think we forgot to polish so my wife actually bought one of his old books I hope this is fate in about 2001 and I was just briefly reading through that nice he was pretty anti-eu back then so I think in its heart he's kind of fundamentally anti-eu but he told you blisters boys he's a master politician and you just never quite know what's going on so there may be a grain of truth in what Cameron says them mmm yeah I would say yeah I think you know what Cameron said there suggests that he doesn't trust him which is I mean that's all the politicians and I don't trust any of them make sure you're still teamed in at 11:00 o'clock because we're gonna spend that 11 to 12 hour talking about some astonishing polling that's been published overnight I'm a Sunday Express about just how low that trust has become dan thank you so much for your call I'll talk at a moment I'll talk at a moment about the vote leave operation and what they actually wanted from this referendum but I'll do it in a minute because for now it is 10:30 and it's time for the news with Philly Chris across the front court is heading for the bookshops and here he is a mass on D times Boris back something he didn't believe in to benefit his political career he also said that you know he talked to Boris Johnson who himself at the time had talked about fresh negotiations followed by a second referendum what's the truth of all of this all right as you know I was involved in this right from the very start the vote leave operation when it was set up and it was run really from start to finish by Dominic Cummings I did go you know very early on way before the referendum being called and talked to Dominic Cummings and his view was that we should try and get a leave vote and then use that as a lever not the trigger article 15 oh he didn't want to do that but he wanted to use it as a lever to renegotiate and then to have a second referendum at the end of the process and I think in many ways such is the force of personality for good or bad of Cummings that I think all of them to begin with believe that was the right position they didn't as the campaign went on talked about it was there also an element of careerism in what Burris did I was convinced that actually many in vote leave did not think it was possible to win the referendum but they did think they could capture the majority the heart and soul of most conservative activists which meant when the succession to David Cameron inevitably came that they would be in the pound seats to take over the conservative party the apparatus would all go into number 10 funny that's happened anyway just it just took three years so Boris was all over the place at the start of this referendum I remember on the BBC not really knowing whether he was campaigning to leave the single market or not but he soon sorted that out and I would just say this Cameron there is some truth in what Cameron says about their position being really very very confused but I do believe that by the end of the campaign Boris was completely on board with the brexit message and I think he has been ever since and I personally of course politically hope that he doesn't finish up bringing us Brian who breaks it in name only because he feels he's in such a fix so some truth in what Cameron says on this but I don't think it applies to Boris today I really genuinely don't and on the bigger picture of the book it's just a Windsor thorn I feel very very little support from Lenny and Ashford does say that he supports David Cameron will any ring us because I'm looking for someone who does on Facebook mark says Cameron resurrected your career Nigel if he didn't grant that referendum you wouldn't be necessary no mark is there way around matey he granted the referendum because I was the wolf coming up the path and he feared mass defections that's what he feared above all it wasn't just that he was losing votes wasn't just that he was losing this on the ground all over the country – you kept he actually feared mass defections in the House of Commons and I think we were very very close to there being defections maybe not as bigger defections as David Cameron feared to be honest so so actually the idea was to stop my political career dead in its tracks the strange thing mark was that the day after he'd said there will be a referendum if I get a majority of the next election far from it actually make him a need for me disappear can actually added to my credibility it was a really most peculiar thing it did not work in the way that he thought Juliet says the only good thing Cameron did for brexit was allowing the referendum and several of you actually saying that let's go to Victor who's calling from Swanage in Dorset good morning Victor and you're you're very close to the Lib Dem Conference there aren't you we are indeed just a few miles away Brett Thomas here this morning I just wanted to say in supporters that ever come and I was an accident manner and when they become and went to negotiations with EE and showed the tuner he showed up the true nature of the relationship with the EU and I as a result of that and as a result of Merkel going over the heads of every yeah EU p.m. and letting in so many migrants from outside of the into the country without any sort of negotiation that just turned the situation for me and then whenever I started looking into the what happened in the past and then understood the Maastricht Treaty where Mitchell major forced through the Maastricht Treaty over heads of his own politicians offered after a titanic battle the victor Cameron's failure in the renegotiation that helped turn you from remained to leave I mean it wasn't deliberate it was a failure wasn't it Cameron failed in that renegotiation yes he did and at the time he said he would put it in a knight's out after negotiations and if he'd stayed neutral and said there's what he thought it's your choice and if he'd stood and did what he said I would have supported them I think that the best thing he's going to go down in history for is actually giving a varenna referendum after something like 25 years after the Maastricht Treaty one other thing I'd just like to say yes I'm originally from northern arm degree up journey troubles their journey seventies and eighties and with regards to the backstop the backstop is just a negotiation tactic and clever one it's the e it's the EU who should be saying what they need to protect the single market it should not be on the UK to detect well I tell you what Victor that will be top of the agenda by the way thank you for your call Victor and that folks will be top of the agenda maybe the main news item tomorrow whether one never knows these days with defections and everything else but David Kerr I'm a TV camera I've got to forget about him please please please forget about him Boris Johnson will be heading tomorrow to Luxembourg at a meeting brokered by the Luxembourg Prime Minister and it's going to be Cameron and Younker heads ahead tomorrow and they will be talking about that backstop they will be talking about whatever changes may be possible with mrs. Mays failed withdrawal agreement and mr. Younker will report back directly to the European Parliament on Wednesday morning after that meeting and don't forget you know time is it's the 15th of September now that crucial summit is the 17th 18th of October how much are the EU prepared to give David Cameron and my guess is they're going to give something but I saw Boris Johnson I keep saying that and how much are they going to give and and I they're gonna give something but I don't think very much right back to David Cameron what is his legacy has he been fair in his condemnation of Gove Boris and indeed to some extent myself let's get James and mother Ted Vogler morning James how are you I'm very well indeed Anika's there you are the the birthplace of the Labour Party but it's a conservative we're talking about this morning it's David Cameron do you feel kindly towards him James no I what I what I see I don't know if you see it Nigel I see Ted Heath mark to that that he will not be quiet he will not sit there and that the Prime Minister do what he failed to do because such a good negotiator Mr Cameron went over there come back with nothing Mr Cameron is your book there for the rest of the Tory Party to see you as the knight in shining armor that you were the man that could put the Tory party back together oh no really no comrade you've missed your slot unfortunately we are leaving and you like mr. he can keep on saying what you're saying and all we going to look at is a bitter old man if st. James isn't it because it's not just David Cameron we've got John Major talking about just scrapping the referendum result we got Tony Blair saying a second referendum is absolutely vital Gordon Brown saying the same thing why do all of these former Prime Minister's feel they must try and stop breaks it because Nigel you and the you and I know what's happening here because they will be a you an EU commissioner for justice for transport for planning the gravy train has stopped Nigel for them unfortunately and Nigel I just like to get this point to you you will have an MP in Merthyr Tydfil you will have well James let's see what happens I don't think any of us can predict what's going to happen over the course of the next few weeks or months thank you for your call and your passion on Twitter where well shot of David Cameron as you say he didn't get why the people voted to leave the EU then and he still doesn't get it now and that you know that actually is what comes out of this to me more clearly than absolutely anything else matt says Cameron's book within one month will be reduced to homp out a 99 copy well the advance on this book is really quite big but by British down is very very big it's 800,000 pounds was the advance for this book they're gonna have to shift a lot of copies which maybe is why the newspapers are as full of this as they are tell me will you rush out to the shops and buy a copy of this book for the record do you have some residual respect for David Cameron and who he is I'm trying in the interests of journalistic balance to find people to come on and defend the former prime minister at the moment I'm finding it really rather difficult you're listening to the Sunday edition of a night of ferrets show here on RBC and it's now 10:45 Nick Ferrari at breakfast weekday mornings from 7 LBC if we go back to the heady days of June through July a number of prominent conservatives took to the streets to persuade the conservative membership to vote for them as the leader of the party but the surprise package was Rory Stewart compete for Penrice on the border do you fear that Boris Johnson did mislead the monarch there's absolutely no way of telling us he said that's before she bought the korky they're not gonna be able to get the information here I think the bigger question it up a David Cameron in the room in fact Donna in Leeds reckons that he's booked within a few weeks will be 99 P per copy in the bargain bucket well I don't know we are at least talking about him I suppose and a day does at least deserve that I just hope once we've had this debate about the book he goes away for another three years and we don't hear a word from him let's see what Jane from out Phil makes a bit good morning Jane I'm well so are you gonna be my first caller to say that David Cameron was a great prime minister and we're all being terribly unfair one of those little cogs keep rolling up the conservative head offices Motown yeah saying I'm gonna vote UK I'm gonna vote UK this is no referendum and I think a lot of little cooks like her yeah and that's why we thought the referendum yes oh no he was the prime minister in it through mo himself what he's killed employs oh it's exactly what he's doing and I just you know I wish and pray it was you and Bari in charge of abhi together well that's that's a source of speculation that is a source of speculation trouble is Jane and you know sort of coming up to date now with Boris rather than talking about Cameron but but the trouble I guess Boris for Boris and Boris supporters is it well if he's nice to Nigel does that not put off that the last remnants have remained within the Conservative Party and it means they might lose some seats to the Lib Dems that's what they're saying Jane yes well you know on another cynical side and I believe somebody has rushed this publishing of this book through you know at a crucial moment yes we couldn't it could not be a more sensitive moment to publish this book could it no I honestly believe someone's had it published through quickly and I think someone's I did a few chapters to it but maybe honestly okay alright James thank you very much indeed talking about a Seabury can someone help me why is she all over the BBC constantly I mean she's defected helped set up a new party that fared catastrophically in the European elections they've had a couple of rebrands since I mean she's clearly got a very very insignificant following amongst the great British public and yet she seems to be all over the BBC whether it's talking about David Cameron whether it's talking about Boris Johnson what is it about Anna Seabury and the BBC all right I know she used to work for the BBC before she was in politics but I'm obviously missing it so somebody please text our eight four eight five oh and explained to me why I'm under estimating the importance of Anna sue berry to our national life we're going down to birch Anansi to speak to Lewis Lewis good morning to you good morning Nigel I bet it's not the Mediterranean down there today is not beautiful just walking along the beach little girl perfect now is it a beautiful sunny morning for David Cameron in your view no not really not really I think he's what you said there explains the mindset at the political class go on collaborate well during – during the campaign this was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity there'll be no circle referendums book comes out this should be second possibly possibly yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and and he really is kicking Boris at a very tough time isn't he he's but then I think when he explains about Boris never really believed in it may Boris at the time may be experiencing what heaps brothers felt not so long ago a little bit of pressure between family and career well I think there is some truth that Boris was a little bit confused at the start of the referendum us as to what leave really meant I think there is some truth in that but I think he's made his mind up now Louis enjoy your walk along the beach ah support come again I support Cameron he held the country together during difficult economic times and made the Tories appeal to liberals yes he tried very hard to do that I'm a one nation Tory me and Cameron differ because I'm an ardent lever like Boris why are we suddenly considered far-right what I do agree with that I mean these ludicrous comments of a or Philip Hammond that you know the Tory party is being taken over by the far-right it's all apps a ludicrous how is it far-right to what self government how is it far right to want democratic control over your own country it isn't did Cameron hold the country together during difficult economic times well I think actually it was the it was labour that had the very tough economic times and all right you know Cameron did in 2010 inherit a very very big deficit but but actually that the Cameron years were years of economic growth I know that we can give him much credit for that at least that's my view let's go to Warwick and speak to Andrew good morning Andrew good morning so David Cameron I mean I'm struggling to find support for him can you say a nice word about David thank you so some wonderful thing oh really go on he's the Hong Kong Phooey of European democracy is basically stumbled backwards into wholesale political reform which had he set out with that attendee to be given the grassy knoll treatment but now this was incredible but none of it was deliberate Andrew was it wait exactly I mean I think it's I mean what has he done some wonderful things yes but he didn't intend to do them at all no no no that means it's what I mean it's the same with with the the the Scottish of this the Scottish elections he managed to get it and assumed that that was him and not just partially dumb luck I mean it's quite incredible I mean a particularly good about my knows that he said that Boris just did this to further his career and David Cameron clearly envisioned himself as this sort of great democratic union Iser who would take you know self Britain and take it and put it together Scotland and parcel it all up and give it to the European Union and be a sort of a founding pillar of the European Union ISM well naturally he's done precisely the opposite but when people look back on it they'll say well who actually you know set the ball rolling on this new political you know political reform and made people realize just in in what puber just distaste mp's view the whole of democracy he's going to be seen as the tatters as the as the person of his smoking it's just it's just I think he's got some wonderful doesn't skort not to the rosy there's quite a lot of the book in the book about smoking too but we'll ignore what he was smoking Andrew thank you and a few of you praising him because by accident he allowed this referendum to happen under pressure he allowed it to happen I'm going to give the last word on this subject to Simon who's calling from South Norwood good morning Simon good morning my soul and you probably don't remember me but we did speak about two years ago before I say anything I just want to say I did vote remain here's a friend and but I'm a Democrat yes and oh goodness my scepter will do people and I want to leave without a deal just to make that clear before I say anything else okay now as regards to David Cameron next to Margaret Thatcher I think he's been the most successful an amazing post-war British prime minister if we put this into context he put he took over a declining party with 33% of the vote and 197 MPs yes it was a disaster I think people forget this by seriously now if we look at when he left there were 331 MPs and overall majority and an absolute joke of an opposition leader an absolute joke so I think his legacy was actually quite good Simon Simon when he inherited the Tory Party and yes you're quite right about the number Tory MPs but Blair was absolutely at his peak wasn't he you know Blair was at his peak the Tory party had been laid waste for years the biggest failure I would say is this he was unable to secure a majority against the Labour Party they've been office forever locked for a long long time and a weak Prime Minister in trouble in the shape of Gordon Brown he showed in 2010 his approach of going for the liberal centre just didn't work because norm any traditional conservative Simon just stayed at home yes but the jump that he had to do was so high the amount of seats he had to jump from 197 to 300 and yeah 26 he almost made it but he didn't quite make it and I think it was a very successful coalition I think you know they got they got us out of the economic mess that labour has migrated so I have to say before we ring off they are massive a3 sized poster of David Cameron on my kitchen wall framed beautifully with Samantha in those pictures of me dancing with my friends on the silent I'm very pleased we got you on as the last caller because that gave us some balance because everybody else is being horrid to him and Simon does make the point Tory fortunes did improve from when he first took over they were at a very very low ebb oh and the answer comes from Kelly and a Seabury is to the BBC as Joe Biden is to see and n right moving on to the next hour set the some polling and today Sunday Express suggesting the people have just no confidence in politicians it shows that amongst remain voters – you know 73% of you saying Parliament is in desperate need of reform how much confidence do you have in our entire political system right now if you think nope leave it as it is it'll sort itself out call Oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three maybe you've lost complete faith in which case text two eight four eight five oh and if we need reform what reforms do we need to restore your trust tweet using the hashtag farad and LBC at LBC and of course through Twitter Facebook YouTube you can put your ideas there too on your radio on global player and they LBC leading Britain's conversation is ldz from Global's newsroom at 11 o'clock Boris Johnson is likening the United Kingdom The Incredible Hulk as it prepares to leave the European Union next month the prime minister says the Hulk always escaped no matter how tightly bound IND he seemed to be and that's the case for this country have been talking about this over the last couple of weeks here on LBC I don't think that Westminster or the media class in London actually get just how sick to death vast numbers of people are in the way that our political system works and they want real big change interestingly it's not just brexit ears not just brexit ears who think this whole thing needs changing that it isn't working anymore Liz it any wonder I mean look at the news overnight David Cameron a Lister Sam gamer the kind of person that Dave thought would make the party friendly and encourage new voters and so he could walk around without wearing a tie on and say call me Dave and all the rest of that bilge so Sam gamer overnight has Member of Parliament for East Surrey one of the most conservative parts of the country and he's now a Liberal Democrat yep he's down there in Bournemouth on the stage being cheered Sam gamer joins the Liberal Democrats radicals follows on from Sarah Wallace than others and it seems now that MPs can shop and change chuckle Ramona can change once and change again and you know all these MPs moving passes there's not been a by-election in sight I mean are you surprised that people don't really like a career politicians when they see this kind of behavior I see what gamer has done overnight and by the way I'm not singling him out he's just the latest example of what we've seen over the course of this year but that I think is why people think things need to change I wonder whether I wonder where the people were asked they'd actually say the MP should not be able to switch parties without of our election I wonder what you'd say about the House of Lords you know looking at the lists of people who seem to be rewarded again last week for failure and chucked into the upper house so I think there's a real appetite for change I think then I can see it in the numbers and I really do think that our confidence in this is breaking down my worry my worry is this my worry is that confidence is breaking us down so much that I begin to get that I hope I'm wrong but I begin to get the feeling that a lot of you might just think voting is pointless and if we get to that situation it'll probably allow the existing establishment to go on dominating us more and more and more let's test the temperature Peter says Parliament is fine it's just the politicians let's go to John who's a new quarter from Rotherham good morning John morning Nigel so how do you feel about Parliament our MPs right now it's an absolute joke we use a complete shake up in it you know I would say go for the general election get rid of everybody that's in there and just fill up with bits at Party MP what would John you as clearly as a brexit Party supporter can say that and maybe my next caller will be a Liberal Democrat and say that but isn't the truth of it John that with our electoral system getting really big change in our representation it's pretty difficult well what the politicians don't understand is that things change people change and the way they're running it that's movie that was fine 20 years ago but things have moved on we need new people with new ideas become a new country again you know one sort of West start all over again and let's build you know a really great britain but john when you use a man to do that's I love your confidence in me John that's very very sweet but let me ask you this I wonder whether for every John in Rotherham there's someone living next door to you who says you know what I'm sick of the whole bloomin thing what's the point of voting it never changes anything that's my concern John that people are becoming so hacked off with this they might just stay at home when I campaign for leave people were saying to me that was the biggest negative I came across what is the point important because politicians will just do what they want to do they told me John I want to what leave I want out of the European Union but what's the point because they will not do what we want and three years later I think the right I mean what what is the point in them politician to be didn't look we need a general election but it won't give it but John but John that general election is coming all right even if an Oliver let wind now wants to sort of keep the zombie Parliament going until next summer or whatever but there will be a general election err too long and John if even three years ago prior to the referendum you were getting that reaction from people in South Yorkshire there might be even more of them now who stay at home no no I think we've had enough all right I think the breaks of tears I think we've been quite owner you have Ramone Ramone Ramone what I've expected tears we are not the ones you know blocking off parts of London complaining and mourning about it the Blitz the tears were to write off to be a different matter altogether trouble is with Mark yeah the trouble is there's a brexit his appetite to rise up are they are people can be pushed hmm well if they rise up in democratic terms I'd be delighted any other I wouldn't John thank you for your call Nigel we need an English Parliament abolished the House of Lords disestablished the church set off the BBC electoral reform and a written constitution filled from time with I reckon we could sort all that out in about ten years Phil Phil they're expressing a whole list of things that he thinks needs to be changed and I don't think Phil is on his own I think there is a real desire for big change I think it proves I get that mp's changing parties is a career move it's like changing your football team allegiance because they keep losing says malc in sorry I'm going to the Prime Minister's constituency of Uxbridge to speak to Tom good morning tom good morn idle so what it is a mess isn't it it so it's almost what this country needs Nigel is one is a modal breaks to get our borders back yeah our Parliament back and get a new party in power we don't need the Conservatives and we don't need a labor they've both missed up each time to get a new country going with third party in its no being in Europe that has never had anything you want to start getting fresh but Tom even if we did that don't our current set of institutions need reforming isn't that part of the problem here you know I mean I wonder no no I get that I get that I get that but I think I think what's needed here is more far-reaching than just a new party emerging I think I think we do need electoral reform I think the House of Lords is a complete joke I think that either is well I'd like to see us actually have the ability on occasionally on very biggest used to have more referendums but to make them legally binding I mean there's some big stuff needs doing here Tom I think there's a lot of stuff doing but you see with the politicians we've got why they're all jumping ship they sector we need a strong new strong government in there a new party that the people want that will get this country going right weekly shoes with laces I just so hs3 the FIFO but it's a simple solution to it but nobody wants to jump on and go ahead with it you know because they don't care they just want their just Tom just reiterated to finish off here's your simple solution is say it again my simple solution is right we need to gets a new a new government in the new party we don't need the Liberal Democrats they've been in the Tories we don't need the lay-by a fresh start aren't you a total fresh start with fresh new borders onwards and upwards as they say right okay Tom but Tom wants a new party I don't think that's enough I think we need much much bigger change your ideas coming through Steph abolish the unelected House of Lords in all its regards replaced with a fully elected second chamber the Senate we have a hundred and forty-one counties and unitary authorities why not have one male senator one female senator from each County gender equality will arrive well I have staff again there are so many dimensions to this but the fee limit is not working I think it's very very strong I want to hear from remain us I want to hear from remainders whoo-hooo themselves feel disappointed about the some of the behavior that we've seen in Parliament or maybe you think some of that behavior has been justified I have to say that I don't some of it I think has been absolutely appalling I saw those MPs scuffling by the Speaker's chair holding up placards I mean I thought I was watching Bolivia or Colombia or a third world country I thought a colonel would come in with a funny mustache and a hat my Garlin take over I mean it's hard to believe that what's been known as the mother of Parliament's has sunk to these depths let's go to David in Kingston upon Thames good morning David yeah morning Nigel well I think is that all of the cabinet's all of those that lead departments they are the very least they should be qualified and experienced to do so and if they're not they don't have any business running that department and the idea that we shuffle round from running one department to the other to the other that's not the case and you guys to look into their backgrounds of actually everyone in cabinet none of them always say none of them are experienced or qualified to do the jobs as they do you're absolutely right I do I remember in in Blair's time bloke called John Reid Scottish MP bright very able no question about that and quite an impressive bloke and you'd see him appearing you know or hear him appearing for the Labour Party during tough times he was cool calm composed a good operator but here's the point in the first ten years of Blair's Premiership Reid held eight separate cabinet positions for different departments I mean it's impossible to work that way day but isn't it absolutely and people would say where they have advisors but they can't ignore these advisers truly is the advisers if they're qualified and experienced in the jobs they're the ones that should be in charge you wouldn't accept it in any other business or why do we accept it for the most important jobs of the country I'm not asleep in the political system I quite like my local local MP Ed Davies I've met him before he's very helpful but I think though it lived them so I can't if I want to have your on the sentence and if I want a voice in new government I have to not vote in my visa the MP that I like so let's fight for them separately it doesn't really matter what political party they belong to if they want to serve their local community good for them or is there an avoidant base the more they do when it comes to cabinet we really need to vote them in separately don't know the way it's like a carry on I don't think there's an appetite to vote for cabinet posts and of course it wouldn't work because cabinet members resign or get sacked but you know Donald Trump Donald Trump with his departments has put a lot of people into very powerful positions who've never been in elected politics in their lives but have been successful entrepreneurs is there some argument that maybe the government starts to use experts in areas and gives them even though they're not elected or does that fail because they can't go before the House of Commons and be questioned I think we should be I would suppose the men and their inner they people vote for different reasons some people are particularly interested in education and they might just focus on education so scare them this gives them the chance to vote for their own education minister and so on and so forth not everybody votes will come for the full spectrum of politics but everyone has their own little slice of the cake where they wish they're interested in so once again we voted someone surrender a particular cut line in their problem is that why not I think I think you're right in your criticism that we have people running departments about which they have not got the first idea you wouldn't run a company like this so why the hell would you run a country like this I get that when it comes to voting for them individually I'm not sure but a thank you for the ideas you're listening to the Sunday edition of an idea for our show here on LBC and it's 17 minutes past 11:00 this is lvc when it comes to cruising you don't want to feel like just another number thankfully the new smaller boutique ships from Salva offer a more personal service there's a door-to-door chauffeur to take you to them from the ship Cheers every cabin has a balcony with a sea view beautiful doughnut one of the intimate speciality West once dishes and each ship has a whole host of venues to match your mood and guess what confidence in politics is shot 80% of you want political reform and 75% of you think Parliament is not fit for the 21st century that polling that's on the front page of today's Sunday Express and it does reflect what I've been feeling this week going around the country there is real frustration anger at our whole political system I think actually the honors Teresa Mae's resignation honors added to that as people could not believe seeing those who failed at their jobs being awarded Pitt riches and knighthoods am is unbelievable there is a huge desire for change now we talked in the first hour a lot about David Cameron you know about this book for the record that is coming out and from tomorrow morning at 7 o'clock when Nick Farrar is on he will tell you tomorrow morning about his upcoming interview here on LBC with David Cameron so you get David Cameron himself on LBC this week with Nick Ferrari for a big interview and I'm sure that Nicky's going to ask him some very very pertinent questions back to political reform and what I'm particularly keen to hear particularly keen to hear from those who voted remain who also because levers are leavers are just sick to death of the whole shooting match you know all we see is is willful obstruction and that ghastly little John Bercow you know telling us again and again now how creative we're gonna have to be to stop the prime minister and people really really levers are furious but I'm also keen to hear from remainders who also clearly from these polls in huge numbers want political reform what kind of reform do you want to see I'm gonna pack them to speak to Josh good morning to you hi hey good morning so I mean do you sit there and think what's the point of the whole thing like so many others no not really actually I am one of the few people that probably has a lot of faith in career politicians I think politics is within the respect it's the only trade in the entire world so we give people no credit for being experienced you know why do we not want people that know how the political system works why do we not want people who know how to get legislation through and who know how to sell an argument you know why is that about it because I supposed you're talking more hear about people who would work in the bureaucracy would work in the civil service surely what we want from politicians is something a bit more than that no I I mean I agree with that point but I think when you when you lambaste all career politicians you're basically writing off a huge group of people who the majority of them a good constituent the MPs they work hard but because you've been necessarily like their stance on breakfast you write them off as being careerist not having I don't like their stance on anything because they don't actually have a stance on anything all they give a damn about is getting reelected at any experience Josh of mine that really really turned me on this so back in 1999 I was elected to the European Parliament and I remember late in 2001 coming into 2002 I was in the coffee room at least they did sell coffee there are the stuff too but I think the coffee room in Strasbourg and next to me were a group of half-a-dozen Tory MEP s and they were getting ready for the Reece elections for the next set of European elections and and they obviously weren't sickly aware that I was sitting there and they were openly joking oh yes he said I'm gonna pretend to be really you're a skeptic in front of my audience they although hilarious how they were gonna lie to their own associations in the regions about what they really stood for just so that they get back onto the lists and at that particular day saying that Josh has turned me against career politicians because I think they will tend to say what people want to hear rather than what they believe in themselves but Nigel wouldn't you pass yourself as a career politician if you spend the last 20 years you know in and around the European Parliament and lobbying for things that you care about in lobbying I've been lobbying to get rid of my job not to get reelected but you say you but you fought an election you know you for every time there was a European like I just want that I didn't want to but force you to do well I think they did actually because if I wasn't doing it who was who was gonna be there I mean you know back in March of this year it looked like brexit was finished second referendum was going to be inevitable we weren't gonna leave on March the 29th Mrs May was still Prime Minister so I came back into it Josh had a I think I believe out of political necessity so for you personally it's a it's a higher calling that called you back into the game politicians have been in the game for twenty years they're doing it for purely selfish reasons you don't think that of course of course some of them do and you'll meet people from the right center and left of politics who are genuinely motivated and and and they're in politics I mean there are two types of people in politics Josh those who want to be something and those who want to do something and what I meet people who want to do something even if my views are diametrically opposed to them I respect them for who they are and why they're in politics absolutely no question about that my argument Josh about career politics is that so many of them for so many of them it is about status it is about being a member of parliament it is about getting reelected way ahead of what they can actually do to change the country for the good yes I mean there's probably some some truth to that but I think when you're talking this this way about career politicians you're you'll have a hand in eroding the trust you're you know you're making people more skeptical about it you're making people more skeptical about the whole person I think I think Josh when I've said those things over the last decade or more I think what I've done is given voice to what many many people were thinking themselves already so you don't think that this sort of rhetoric is is dividing people farther and turning people against the politicians that may be in a position to help them improve their lives Josh I think obstacles I think up the legal class right now a total and utter disgrace I think the scenes that we witnessed in Parliament the the way that you know hundreds of people despite having voted for article 52 say we would now changed their minds the broken promises at the promises at elections I'm pretty appalled by our political class now if if me saying that if me saying that is divisive in your view I'm saying it Josh because I do genuinely believe it but imagined indulge for a second the counterfactual argument say remain had won by 52% for example and there were leave politicians trying to various means in Parliament to re-radiation they be laughed at Josh who would support them what former prime minister would come out for them what newspaper would come out for them how much coverage with the BBC give them Josh had it been had it been had it been a majority of 50 votes in favor of remain the door on a second referendum would have been locked for at least a decade but you're saying that like no mainstream papers have support for breaking the Express clearly Josh had remain one that would have been the end of it and that's a fact and very difficult for anyone to disagree with that anybody now arguing for a second referendum if they'd been on the losing leave side would they wouldn't get air time they wouldn't be credible this the fact that it's the other way around most enrages Josh you know you're like and just concur can can can discuss this do you understand forget me for a minute here do you understand the desire for real political reform in this country yeah absolutely I was on ABC last week calling for a rictus Constitution and I think the way though we politically use elections in this country is disgusting now I see I've been feeling that a written constitution must be the way forward but there is a slight problem Josh with a written constitution we do give the judges a lot of power then don't we right but if you look at someone like America where the Supreme Court is you know still hugely important part of the political process yeah but they asked within the realms of the Constitution it's their job to uphold the Constitution if they have a text to work from they know why they're ruling and it makes it all a bit more codified yeah no Josh do you know what if we had a written constitution we would never would have given away so much of our lawmaking ability to the in union without you know a light bulb going off and we would have actually been consulted along the way Josh great conversation thank you very much indeed for that well Josh you know he kind of criticizes me for attacking career politicians but that's how I feel you know and they're interchangeable I mean Sam gamer overnight has gone from being elected as a conservative in a safe seat and he's sorry to being a liberal Democrat I mean without a hair out of place he's completely relaxed and I think so many of our politicians over the last few years would have been quite relaxed in Tony Blair's Labor Party or David Cameron's Conservative Party the frankly you can barely put a cigarette paper between them Connie is coming to the defense of Parliament and saying the House of Lords is part of our history and tradition which should be kept well Connie in these if it's gonna be kept in any form and you know what will keep the chamber and will keep some of the ceremony we'll just turn it effectively into a Senate because as it is it's lost all public trust that's what I think if you disagree with me Connie give me a ring only three four five six oh six oh nine seven three you're listening to the Sunday edition of Nigel Farage shape here on OBC and it's 11:30 in time for the news with Phil across across Brooks at secretary Stephen Barkley says a new brexit withdrawal agreement the Daily Express tells us the public have lost faith in MPs and in the parliamentary system and eighty percent of us want wholesale reform 75% of us think the whole thing isn't fit for the 21st century I have to say I have a considerable degree of sympathy for that view and is it any wonder I mean just a few weeks ago Sam gamer had put his hat in the ring to be leader of the Conservative Party so I mean he must have been quite happy with them then and then overnight we hear he's joined the Liberal Democrats now cause he did lose the whip earlier on this month because of course you know he backed the other day I think the other part is over No Deal brexit yet mr. keema you were elected on a manifesto that said no deal is better than a bad deal yet you went against the three lime whip he's now the sixth member of parliament to defect to the Liberal Democrats so far this year not a by-election in sight let's hear mr. gumer explaining himself we cannot assume that our institutions and our democracy is immune from the populism that is sweeping other democracies Liberal Democrats have a unique opportunity to make sure that we fight to defend those values and create a new force in British politics yeah that what he means is the Liberal Democrats have a unique opportunity to stop democracy because he's now joining a party that wanna revoke article 50 they actually want to scrap the referendum result pretend it never happened and take us on to United States of Europe I just think it's completely unacceptable for someone like Sam keema to have been elected on the manifesto that he was to represent the people to be sorry and yet to go off to a party that now wants to revoke article 50 completely unacceptable at every single level eyes absolutely awful Paul from London says what part of the Sam diamond defection do you not understand what I've just gone through all of that it's not him that's changed it's the Conservative Party that's changed no they haven't since the last manifesto in 2017 Paul goes on as a lifelong Tory I'm now seriously thinking about changing as a former Tory supporter I seem to remember you making your own defection when you disagreed with him what Paul I that's a fair point at the end I was in the Conservative Party as a member from 1978 up until the early 1990s but what I saw was the Conservative Party wanting to sign a Maastricht Treaty wanting to sign us up to an Exchange Rate Mechanism it was a Conservative Party that said we must go and I quote John Major to you we must be at the heart of Europe and I said but I don't want to be at the heart of Europe you know mrs. Thatcher didn't want to be that so I left the Conservative Party because it was making the steps in that direction and I think that's a perfectly reasonable position Sam Jima was elected in 2017 on that manifesto that made it very very clear that whilst they wanted a deal no deal was better than a bad deal and that the referendum result would be honored and he's gone to a party that once the revoke article 50 Paul I put it to you there is no comparison between what I've done and what Sam gamer has done none what so ever let's go to Harrow and speak to Darrow good morning Sara I think really the main problem that we have apart from needing to reform the electoral system is that too many of our MPs have just gone through the university system and I myself I'm the uni student and I see what happens inside and doesn't happen everywhere because happening quite a lot of places I see what happens in student unions and other places where lots of people think oh because I'm studying this so because I have a degree in this or because I have a degree in that this and that that I know better than people who haven't gone to university but have worked hard in trades and other job superiority you're saying that graduates have certain type of graduate and I think a lot of these are the people who would then go on and become political research then become counselors and then become MPs having done a proper job you sound like you said you said just like I've been saying this for 20 years they go on and they take that out achieve which they've developed there and it's kind of become more ingrained and entrenched in them and it transfers into the houses of parliament when they then go and become MP I mean my family night so I'm the first in my family to go to uni right they didn't go to uni but you know what my mum and dad started working at the age of 16 18 and they did well for themselves they work themselves up from the bottom they've made a good life for themselves they bought a house I have two kids my grandkids that you know nine nice family and they vote it out in the referendum for perfectly good reasons and so did lots of people in my family I'm really sick and tired actually I do blame my own generation for this and perhaps some of the people in the one above I'm really sick and tired of people saying oh you were sick you didn't know what you were doing horrible I'm having loads of these MPs and I say as someone who used to be in labor but quit because the bricks Emily Thornberrys a good example of this someone who thinks they know better than people and is therefore entitled to turn around to them and say oh you didn't really know what you were doing let's again I mean the goal of these people the actual goal of them to think that they can turn around to us and say oh we think we know better do you remember the Emily Thorne's retweet whoever the Emily Thornbury tweet it was the day of the Rochester parliamentary by-election and there was a bloke there apparently presentable a neat and tidy house with it with a crosses and George because I think there was a big European football event on or whatever it was you know and perfectly reasonable thing to do yeah and she puts then she puts this tweet out as if to say gosh look at these awful peasants living in Rochester we don't have this sort of thing in his Linton you know I mean it kind of summed it up didn't it I mean I just think honestly I mean I have this I used to be in labor so labor itself as a lot of structural change to make putting with the labor pie especially outside the London even admittedly I don't have too much about that because I study outside London I do live in London most of the time is there are traditional voters are Euroskeptic because labor was the way she was absolutely because the single mark is very neoliberal I'm you're asking for the same reason it's a good left-wing case for it and too many Labour MPs and I see up in the Northeast where I'm studying with people and it's early in red car and there's a couple of others too there are some good ones like Rainer and Lavery and you get some other ones who have jumped on the people's a bandwagon who just make an turn around in seats which voted well people up they're angry and that's why they voted for your party and I'll tell you something I don't agree with you and absolutely everything I probably disagree with you on economics or some other domestic issues apart from Brixton but in the last three years you were the only politician who's actually stood up in my opinion and spoken for people like me and there are so many other labour people out there who think Nigel Farage whatever we think about what he thinks on other issues he's someone who's consistently said we need to restore there are five this this point is being really ignored too often in London there are five million labor voters who voted to leave and they're not being represented thank you now my next caller I'm thrilled actually Sir Nicholas Soames has called in good morning Nick how are you good morning idle I'm fine I wanted to take issue with you if I'm a course on this question of career politicians as I understand very strongly the point that you make I also understand a lot of people feel the same but I've read it with great respect they think you are completely right and you paint a kind of caricature I was a soldier I worked in the city of London yeah I have worked elsewhere in my life I became a member of farmers 93 I'm standing down at the next election after 36 years I do not think of myself as a career politician I joined the Conservative Party because I believe very strongly and I still believe very strongly in his he thoughts and its principles and its values and from time to time those get veered off-course inevitably by events and circumstances but I think that to portray all members of parliament as career politicians who are just in it for themselves it's such a stupid and silly thing to say one Nick I know most of the people in the House of Commons try to do a very good job the best job they can under very difficult sentence and the reason that we are all so bogged on in this dreadful European mess is because the country is split the party's a stick parliament is spit and it is very very difficult to come to a conclusion that will serve best for the interests that we all know what making – two huge points you make there all right on the first point I did not say that all members of parliament were career politicians I did say I meet people in politics with different opinions to me who I've got great respect for because I know they're in it out of conviction but surely there are just too many people who've reached the front benches of both the labour and conservative parties over the last few decades who have never yet you've been a soldier you worked in the city you've lived a bit you know a lot of these people have gone straight from Oxford in the research offices and never had a proper job not too many how many working-class people make unhappy working how many working-class people are there now in the House of Commons compared to when you went there back in 1983 yes absolutely and that's one of the points I know really is quite the point the point is that you're always going on about people have had a real job yeah and you were a commodity I just argue a real job well I don't know I hang on a second are you narcissistic picture of of members of farms of the establishment of everything else you're you're you're right and I agree with you nicer than the serious points that you make about the needs of constitutional reform in this country but this country has always succeeded because our reforms have evil we don't go in for revolution and what we need in this country now is a bit more stability a bit more humility and a bit more understanding to get to the position where we can honor the referendum where we do leave as the people voted to leave but we leave in an orderly and sensible way well it's been three and a half years and you know that's one of the reasons why Trust is breaking up finding it can I just ask you what do you make of David Cameron's comments does he look like a bad loser has he made a mistake in publishing a book he's a great friend of mine David Cameron I admire him very much I'm very sorry his career ended as he did I think extraordinarily Frank which is extremely good to hear of the mistakes that he's made and that he feels he's made and goodness knows Nigel all of us all of us including even you have made big mistakes in our lives we should come to regret and we'd be good to talk about the maps more public okay I've caused you're right about that we all made a lot of mistakes thank you for corn again that was Sir Nicholas Soames and he is I know a regular LBC listener and caller he loves LBC and he has teased me about this show when I've seen him face to face in there but that's great and he's right of course not every single MP is a careerist politician but I would never have put Nick Soames in that category anyway but there are too many I think that are and clearly out there in the country the Sunday Express are half right vast numbers of you are losing trust in the system and want it reformed but interesting ly interestingly Nick Soames also said he thought that big reform was needed you're listening service an additional ferrets show here on ABC it's 11:48 this is LBC you're working as hard as you do while you're graft in a way is your money working T and it's time to well faff I well for fine is the smart easy way to start investing just say how you want to invest cautious adventurous somewhere in between and let wealth if I doodle rest then keep track of your money on the app easy isn't it time for you to wealth if I download the app or visit wealth if I calm we're the best in capital is at risk in you come and that we want reform but what is interesting about the Sunday Express polling is it also shows a large number of remainders and indeed we had senator Soames on the photo moment again here he agrees to that real reform is needed but I wonder what political party are the labor or conservatives gonna stand on the next election with a program of genuine reform and I'm gonna say they weren't you know why because there are six hundred men and women in the House of Lords now who've been put in there by Tony Blair and David Cameron six hundred of them and without that power of patronage you know where are they gonna raise the money needed for future campaigns where are they gonna get the favors they need perhaps after politics and that I think frankly I feel we're almost back to the days of Henry the eighth's and the powers of patronage and that that is how the House of Lords has been totally and utterly abused you know the idea of a reforming chamber Phil expertise you know that is very very tempting but I'm afraid the current mob we've got nearly all live in London there's almost no geographical spread it's not working it's one example I think of what is not working John is called even ralien Essex good morning John good morning Nigel and compulsory by-elections it's just that really angers me you know MPs of crossing the floor their refusal called a by-election there's none what's the word I'm looking for this there's little little respect for those individuals that use their own time began canvass on their behalf because they support a party not the individual MP than the party there's also the cost of that by-election sorry the cost of the election a local party pays for that so they got into Parliament using someone else's money someone else's time time that most people could have spent with their families and then not called the by-election I mean I know John you're right you're right but I've been I so a good friend of mine a good friend of mine is a Conservative councillor in Hawley part of the East Surrey constituency he's ahe's a fishing buddy of mine and you know he's a very very dedicated not just councillor but conservative activist and he's planning elections a year ahead and putting his life and soul into the Conservative Party but effectively for the last few years he's been doing it for Sam keema you know and and and and it is a strong conservative area but they've worked jolly hard and my friend and he's certainly worked hard earlier and I've no I didn't ring him early I mean I well perhaps after I come off fair but he's literally being kicked him at ease by sound game on this morning doesn't mean that entirely I mean you've got people but all all sides of politics labour'd nicknames conservatives the individuals at those local constituencies they're giving up their time so often their own money to get somebody who – I think that's a very strong point John so do you think I mean if on from Luton says to me that you know the law needs to be amended so the MPs who leave their party have to have a by-election now there could be there could be exceptions couldn't there to that but but as a general principle John do you think the gamer should not be allowed to do what he's done overnight absolutely agree with that I think most people do you know John thank you I'm gonna go to Angela who is a new caller from Coventry good morning Nigel fantastic to talk to you welcome so come on what's gonna happen or do you think it's all rosy in the garden come on Rosie is my dog another name can you explain to me how the law courts in this country can pass a law to make leaving the EU without without a deal unlawful without totally annihilating the democratic rights of a democratic land it's taking away the right of choice its Parliament that's done that right it's pom Berko you know has torn up mr. justice the very thought of John Burke as spoil your son the Angela Oh John boko with his what what does he call it artistic endeavors I know you don't like the key word Nigel but come on when you're changing the laws of the land in such an undemocratic way that is traitorous well I mean you know standing out standing orders article number 24 has clearly been reinterpreted by John Bercow on his own in fact I'm surprised there's not some legal challenge against him to find out what his motive was but we are where we are and Boris of course as a result of this is in a bind I mean Angela Boris says let's finish on this point of trusted MPs and politicians our prime minister says we are leaving on the 31st of October do you say to him do you believe him I'd like to believe him I think I I heard something on LBC this morning and I thought how very apt that was and that was that I think it was on Andrew castles show and they said that somebody had quoted the fact that public school people want to make a name for themselves whereas general school people if you like you know local council school people want to action things now Boris to me seems to be somewhere in the middle and I like I do there isn't time to believe that he wants to do he is the one person who is actually pretty big four hundred and Rafi fails and we don't leave when we wake up on the first of November still members of the EU that trust will have broken down even more winters oh absolutely but tell me can it go much slower than it already is surely the only way is up we must be somewhere at the bottom I think you're probably right Angela thank you and thanks and everybody thank you to all the callers this morning especially certain exo-m's who phoned in and that's provoked a reaction Nigel I almost split my sides listening to Nicholas Soames defending out-of-touch MPs he isn't exactly from a working-class background is he says Robert is sitting warm but Fiona says well done to Soames for putting Nigel in his place and that I guess is what LBC is here for and what it is all about civilized debate of people with different opinions please please enjoy the rest of your Sunday I will be back tomorrow evening here at 6:00 at 3 o'clock afternoon it's Ian Payne but up next it's David Lammy thanks Nigel coming up on the show David Cameron has said in his memoir that Boris Johnson did not believe in brexit during the referendum campaign and back leave because it would help his political career the former PM also refers to cabinet minister Michael Gove as a foam flecked Farrar gist and added the pair were ambassadors for the expert thrashing truth twisting age of populism tomorrow johnson is due to meet