Watch the explosive interview with Labour Brexiteer Brendan Chilton | James Whale

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Former General Secretary of Labour Leave Brendan Chilton joined James Whale and Ash on their show to discuss the state of Brexit and the benefits of leaving …

Brexit – James O'Brien Vs Irrational Brexiteer Caller

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James O’Brien tries to reason with an irrational Brexiteer.

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feeling a little bit uneasy today because I find myself agreeing with you a lot which doesn't normally happen when I listen to your show and are very pleased and I'm not a racist and I also firmly enough didn't want to abolish freedom the move which and I coming from someone who folks leave must be and quite a shot here as well you know I was going to ask how you could have ended up at a place in life where you disagree with a lot of what I say but I think you just explained it to his carry on yes listening to your mediator I was in some agreement with him and but I also feel that you were wrong when when you said that leave voters can't see the rational side because I do believe that we're at a stage now where and this hybrid agreement between later it's still theoretical of course but but if customs union is is tacked on to Teresa Mays deal what what I meant when I said that was how would you describe the prize that that delivers to you as a leave voter well it doesn't make me happy what is the good bit the good bit is there and I can't believe I'm saying this is that we get it through and we just get over and done with and then we start to rebuild everything that's been crushed by this process we don't have to cross anything we could just go back to how we were I don't think that's an option that well it is clearly an option it's not desirable but it's clearly an option so so we're left wondering what what so you you now or as someone who voted leave I think that customs union is is the way forward because you wouldn't have to admit you were wrong and so sorry that's what I'm hearing no I believe so what's the plus or we're going to have to it's going to have to have to and even if it's for icon number who it was last week so that even if it's for a period of time and so they're the loss the positive was the improvement that it delivers from what we currently have what as in the spaces quo right now today yeah it gives us something to look forward to in to actually build upon no no no it has to be better a lot better than what we have day what would that deliver that's better than membership it doesn't there is nothing but so there's nothing on the table that's better than membership but you remain passionately opposed to membership I oppose memberships reasons not to do betrayed and remember the Armed Forces know in Vermont he the prospect of an EU army was something that I'm speaking on behalf of myself but also on behalf of a lot of people that I served with yes was a very worrying prospect military cooperation yes there's a very worrying prospect no because we work with members of the military within EU states that's one thing they're all under the same umbrella and being Ramona suggests managed by the same chain of command no one's suggesting there'll be more like NATO you've got probably somewhat I'd say have you got for NATO and also just to those of us who aren't who haven't served I've always felt a little bit more threatened by armies that we're not in why because they're our enemies the ones that we're in they're our allies yeah just talk me through that it's you have lost me there a bit okay if there is an EU army and we are in it I would not feel threatened by it historically the armies that threatened us as a sovereign nation are armies that we are not part of so how have you as a soldier ended up being more frightened of an army that we would be in than you are of an army that we're not in if that was the case it would be no different to what we've already got with NATO however exactly what I've been led to believe which could be wrong we're gonna have a chain of command that is going to establish it but we're still being we'd still be did you just use the phrase European super-state yeah okay have a great day sober Exeter's have gone from describing the vote to leave racks it as something better than membership of the European Union so they've gone from that to describing brexit as something worse than membership of the European Union but it's necessary to follow through with the vote for two reasons basically one of them is its democratic it's the will of the people and even if people know that the effect of brexit is going to be worse on society on the economy than staying in it we have to go through with it anyway because it's the will of the people as James O'Brien had said in many other cases the it's the will of some people but not the will of all the people even all the people who voted to leave because many people voted for different reasons to leave the European Union so that's one branch of the idea that you have to continue with the vote the other is a threat the other is if we don't follow through with the vote a certain group of people will protest and they will become violent so that means that the British people are going to be held ransom their safety is going to be held ransom because of a small group of people who are led by a so called a man of the people like Niger Faraj for example so that the British people have to follow through with something that has been proven to be based on lies and conducted in an illegal way but they have to follow through with it because it's the will of the people or because a certain group of people are going to protest in a violent manner this is what brexit has become and people continue to defend it it's ridiculous

Dumb Things Brexiteers Say – Part 2

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Second in the series of video tackling the most ridiculous Brexit arguments. This time, it’s trade deals, EU laws and borders. If there are any you’d like me to cover, then please put them in the comments below.

hi – Phil I enjoy talking about politics and welcome to part two of the dumb things that brick city is say so this is where I go through a few of the statements that keep cropping up and explain how they are in actual fact nonsense and if there's any ones that I've not covered in part 1 or part 2 and you think should be covered then put those in the comments below I've still got a few to do as well anyway so first one in this part is well we can just trade with other countries instead you know we lose our trade with the EU or it becomes much more difficult because of course you know even the most extreme brick city understands but if our goods are more expensive then fewer of the markets in the EU will buy them that's the whole point of tariffs but well we can just trade further overseas now I've already talked about the fact that that becomes very difficult a lot of businesses for example when they need to buy things in have to do it very quickly stuff needs to turn around there was a story just this weekend about a in in Germany that supplies British businesses with stickers and they meet them in like two days flat so he's in real trouble if we can you know if he can't supply that with that short turnaround and that's to say nothing of food or anything like that so when you're trading with people much further out it's very difficult to put an order in and get it the next day or a couple of days time you know you try ordering something from China on Amazon it doesn't arrive the next day – and and that's a big problem but then you've also got the costs as well as local regulations as well remember our regulations are relatively straightforward for our businesses to understand because they're the same throughout the EU overseas very different regulations but the thing is in terms of trading with other countries we already can we already trade with other countries we trade on great deals because the e you've got those deals for us but let's try and imagine because they're saying oh we could get even better deals okay so let's try and picture this so with which ones we need it to be a massive economy a major economy so let's look at the large parts of the world so America Trump has already said that he's not going to give us a great trade deal until we drop all of our standards because he wants to sell us the chlorinated chicken which we don't currently accept but also once to privatize our healthcare system he basically wants to buy up our healthcare system and have it completely privatized that's the conditions and and if we don't open ourselves up to that we're not getting any sort of trade deal with the u.s. I mean he describes it as a great trade deal and absolutely this is actually one lie he is not telling this is the absolute truth when he talks about great trade deal it's an absolutely fantastic trade deal for the u.s. because remember what he always says put America first America first he's totally consistent with that we the UK are not going to get trade deal with the u.s. we're certainly not going to get better when we have now then we look at China so we go go work until expanding China Theresa Mayes kept going there made friendly words and all the rest of it yeah sure absolutely thing is we already trade with China we don't trade that much that you know we could easily have traded more anyway but actually that's been declining in fact a Jaguar Land Rover had to announce the loss of four and a half thousand jobs because of lower sales in China so they've already decided that they're not as keen on our goods as they were before and they weren't keen enough to buy masses of them in the first place so that's a declining market India the same thing they basically told us that no really you know there isn't really any scope for expanding that in fact the first place to reason may try to go to to try and get something was India and got completely rebuffed so we're absolutely screwed in a very demonstrate demonstrable way but the problem is that you've also got the situation where in terms of trying to get this trade deal you know less let's imagine you know and despite the fact that the very same people who said we could get a trade deal easily within two years with all of these countries and we've got nothing at all not even the beginnings of one you know people are still believing those but okay let's just say out some fantasy land that they're still telling the truth we could once we've left the EU apparently we need to leave it we could still get a great trade deal okay let's think this through there are two main objections to this one let's say just have some some notion some dream land that we managed to get a great trade deal with a huge economy I don't know maybe we take some jaffa cakes and chocolate Hobnobs in the negotiations bowled them over they go oh yeah yay we're gonna give you a great trade deal there are going to be two massive objections to that first of all as I've already said unlike before the EEC formed now pretty much everyone is in a trading bloc because they've seen the way for the EU has led the way everyone else has seen the benefits of it they have their own regional trading partners we try to get a good trade deal with them their trading partners going in a minute we're going to be losing business as a result of this no you know you're not doing that we're together so that's immediately a block on getting a good deal because we have to be less competitive than their local trading partners and their own business in their own country remember all of these trading blocks are inherently protectionist that's how they work they work by giving preferential treatment to their local partners than people from further away though not in that trading block then there's B the second thing and that would be the EU itself now the EU is very powerful and very protectionist we or many of us may not have noticed this too much because we were the EU at the moment ethically offer a few more day so few more weeks but once we would basically told them we wish to be there impo opponent now although game on so they then let's just say somehow you know with the jaffa cakes and the chocolate Hobnobs we persuade a major economy to give us a great trade deal their local trading partners aren't very happy about it but let's say they just said I'd be fine beside behind the EU we'll go to them and say no no that's not good enough you know you know you're not giving them a better trade deal than we have with you because that's what these bread cities are talking about that we can somehow get a better trade deal than we currently have with the EU the EU aren't gonna be happy about that so they'll just say no no you're not doing that you're not doing that otherwise you're going to lose some trade with us we're gonna start getting a bit tricky here and and if you have to side with a customer who do you side with the one that's got about you know 66 million customers or the one that's got half a billion you side with the one that's for most money simple as that it is as simple as that and and also it's just comes bad I've talked about this before just a really simple situation where we X where we showed just how weak we are on our own as compared to being part of the EU and this wasn't a trading situation this was the Facebook situation so last year a lot of people got really pissed off with Facebook in terms of dodgy dealings with the way it uses its data so the British Parliament were the first ones to say write Mark Zuckerberg we want you here we want to ask you some questions he told us to piss off didn't calm American I currently the Senate was a Senate I can I can never remember it Senate or Congress that do these things I think it's the Senate but basically the American government said the same thing obviously it turned up there but then you think well he is American he lives in America it's an American company of course he's gonna turn up in front of his own government but then the EU did the same thing they said look a bit here now and along he came like a good little poodle and that just shows you the strength of the EU compared to the strength of Britain acting on its own we're weak face it you know were weak and that's the simple situation we won't get better trade deals will get far worse trade deals in fact to be human won't get trade deals at all because they take years people people keep insisting oh you can draw these up in a few weeks no the same people are saying that the people who've actually know what trade deal looks like none of them have said that it takes years second one it says oh well we can get rid of the laws we don't like okay so what's going to happen is at the moment we've copied across all the EU laws so that when we leave it gives Parliament time to amend them as necessary but here's the thing first of all no we can't if we want to trade with anyone we will accept their rules that is that is the simple case of the FATA I mean when we trade with China and we're not in a trading bloc with China well we still have to meet their regulations and their rules and and and and so on you have to sort of agree these things so there's no such thing as having complete control of our all laws anyway there's always a compromise when you wish to work with someone else's with anything isn't it it's absolutely the same with anything you don't get to go and play by your own rules even as an individual if you wish to participate with with someone else you come to a compromise and agreed set of rules the same thing has to happen with trade so if we want to trade with anyone we will be following their rules as we do already obviously we follow au rules at the moment for everything but even when we're trading overseas with those regards we follow those rules as well otherwise we don't trade with them but here's the thing Britain has actually voted in favor of 97% of EU laws right this idea that we have the EU has forced laws on to us that we don't like is a complete fabrication of people's support in Brixton have been done for decades it's not true and it's verifiably not true it's a complete fabrication and and some people will be thinking to themselves either what about the 3% yeah I'll come to that in a moment but here's the thing so the in particular newspapers keep pushing this agenda that the EU are forcing these laws on us and these laws the thing is all of these laws that they say we don't like is not good for Britain or actually they're not just the ones we voted in favor on they're the ones we suggested human rights laws the idea of the European Court of Justice it's our idea the idea of the EU now what some people are said in the comments on I know some people said this or why couldn't we have just stayed as like the EC you know it was all right there and trading bloc why did we have to become this you know much larger more politically active system that was us as well that was Margaret Thatcher now think what you like of her domestically and I am not a fan at all far from it the fact of the matter is she was our government the reason why the the EC reformed into the EU that it is now was Britain we pushed that we came up with a load of recommendations for reform we were the ones who drove it at the same time as getting ourselves a big rebate as well so you know all of these laws of the newspaper say although force this on his fault we agree with it all now again coming back to that 3% that we don't agree with okay so some of you are thinking oh but there's still force 3% of those laws on to us no they haven't the ones we don't agree with we don't do and this is not a and this is not right and I'm not saying this is right at all it's not but the fact of the matter is when you're powerful this is something I've railed against most of my life you basically get to play by your own rules just as with wealthy people who somehow managed to avoid prison sentences the same thing is true of Nations we we are powerful along with Germany in France there are rules when we don't like them we just don't enforce them we don't do them and a classic example is the euro you know and people have even tried saying in the comments all they want us to join the euro yeah they wants us to join the euro and we didn't and that's it you know Schengen we did and that's another thing about borders people keep talking about these open borders we don't have open borders we have freedom of movement but no we don't have open borders but between britain v EU that's a myth okay the only part we do have an open border with of course is Northern Ireland at the Republic of Ireland because of the Good Friday Agreement nothing to do with the EU but we didn't join it we said no we don't want to do that we're not going to classic case is you know since the early noughties the EU has decided that prisoners should be allowed to vote now I am NOT opposed to that I think all citizens should have the votes but Britain said no we don't agree with that if you're in jail you don't get a vote and so we didn't do it we didn't do it and it's only actually recently that the UK government has started to think well maybe we should give some the vote but that's got nothing to do with EU pressure because after all the EU you know the European courts have been telling us no no it's the bits the rules you've got to allow prisoners the vote and we've been saying no we're not gonna and we're still not gonna it's just that the UK government out of its own mind has decided well maybe people who are in jail for less than he should have the vote you know we just don't you know when there's an EU law we do not like we just ignore it we basically cherry-pick what we like that's what we do right now that's the irony the brexit ears keep saying all she'll be able to cherry-pick which laws we like it's like we like 97% of them if we pushed for most of them you know we didn't just sit there France came up with some idea when yeah yeah we can go along with that yeah we'll vote for that no we've actually pushed most of these we came up with a lot of them and Co partnered pushing a number of others there are very few EU laws that we are aware of that were not ours you know it's really that simple it's just so simple anyway the next ones are we can finally control our borders oh can we can we really there was a declared a major national crisis when 12 fellows in a dingy turned upon our beaches how are we going to control our borders the fact of the matter is that the border is guarded at the moment from both sides because as EU countries surrounding it and they look after our borders from that side they won't anymore it's a hassle for them if people are determined to get into Britain illegally then as far as those countries are going to be concerned after we leave it'll be like it'll be self we cannot be asked because it's a major issue for them obviously where people are sort of detained on their side of the border those local communities are not happy about that at all they'd far rather just be getting waved through so that's exactly what they will do the only way we'd maintain any stronger controls of our borders is if we increased our border force massively and we haven't done that there's been no increase in it or as I've not even seen plans for increase in it you know so that's not going to happen and that's the issue as well our issue has never been with even the brexit ears say that we've got no issue with skilled migrants coming across who who do the jobs that we can't do ourselves well that's what you members do the problem we have is with illegal immigration from outside of the EU that's the problem we've always had and that is gonna get worse far far worse you know and that's all there is to it we can't control our borders because we don't have the capacity to do so we have far more control of our borders within the EU and like I've already said people have this attitude that our borders are completely open when we're part of the EU they are not some borders within the EU are that's what's called part of Schengen where you have complete moving your ability documents or anything that's not the case and anyone who has travelled between the UK nor the EU countries knows it's not the case they know it's not but unless of course we're talking literally Northern Ireland and em and the Republic of Ireland obviously they are at the island of Ireland has to be free but the rest of it no you pass across to France you don't just roll along there you know you may need documents you may need to show some documents you know you've got every right to move there but just have your passport with you but because we're not part of Schengen so the border isn't open right now it's bloody well going to be though if we can't stop some Iranian getting across on a boat how are we going to stop you know people getting across through more cunning means you know Laurie checks things like that hassle for them cost them money cost them money to check cost them money if they find someone simple as that so those are the next three nonsense things that brick city is say again if you've got any comments then put those below I might put those into future ones as well there's at least one more to come as well hope you enjoyed it if you did don't forget to click the like button and subscribe for further content click the bell notification to be notified of that further content share with other people who might also be interested and that's all next time I'll see you later

Brexit – James O'Brien Corrects Brexiteers and their Lies

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James O’Brien takes a call from a man who was fed some misinformation which James destroys in a simple way.

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I felt something quite important shift inside me on Saturday as I as I attended that pitch so-called people's vote March and indeed as I had the enormous privilege and slightly daunting pleasure of being the first speaker on the platform in Parliament Square but I said something that I shared with you last week when I was trying to work out what I was going to say and the little phrase we came up with was it was contempt for the con men compassion for the conned though we very quickly if I was one of the con men I'd be trying to cast that as being patronizing or or casting it as being condescending or sneering it's none of those things it's a simple statement of my feelings it was rather gratifying to see it um on a few placards that were knocking about the place on Saturday at t-shirts are to follow actually with donations to a charity yet to be decided but content for the common compassion for the conned um pithy slogan but we know we're pithy slogans have got us so then you dig deeper into what it means and what it actually means is more of an intellectual compassion than an emotional compassion and an intellectual compassion involves empathy and empathy involves imagining the circumstances in which you were devoted to leave the European Union and I found it surprisingly easy there is something almost irresistible about the logic in the absence of other information and other factors the idea that BMW or Mercedes Benz or Audi would in no way allow anything to make it harder for them to sell or indeed manufacture cars in this country it's quite a logical thing that maybe we even should give big be putting Jones a break when he said I know I'm right even though he was wrong I think the fact that he said I know I'm right is what sadly excludes him from any form of kind of forgiveness I know I'm right you can't know you're right and you were wrong your pudding so people who insisted they were right accepted everyone who just thought it made sense and seemed plausible fair play to you turns out it was wrong turns out it's a massive massively more complicated issue than we realized and the German automotive industry let alone the German government sees a lot more value in retaining the single market than it does in allowing a departing member to rewrite the rules put it like that it's not even that hard to swallow is it of course you're gonna retain that it's the single market that lets you do just in time delivery that lets you do this I'll let you see if lets you do that and what sustains it and keeps it afloat is the cooperation and the investment from the Member States so if you're not going to cooperate and invest anymore you don't get to benefit from the things that cooperation and investment has created simples I never heard it explained like that in the run-up so I could easily avoid the other way of course if you did vote the other way and now you've seen that that particular part of the platform was wrong bogus false mistaken you more than anyone deserve another crack of the whip and if you no longer care about the fact that the German car industry isn't going to come to our rescue you can still vote to believe for whatever reasons you now have but the ones you had then they were wrong 12:07 Philipp is in Hatfield Phillie what would you like to say hi James yes thanks for letting me join in I really I really need your help I voted to leave the reason voters these main was bureaucracy you know and I'm paying money to my parish council for stuff from your county council and the rest goes for government now I'm paying something else' stuff but in the last six months or so I've really sort of come round to you know big mistakes you know the way this has been badly negotiated we're gonna get a poor deal I just have all remained in but what has really confused with James this is only to help I have a good friend who's got a son who's a quite a senior academic in Cambridge right I was with him of the weekend and they were stating that we would lose things like our adds pension veto in 2020 I met the concerns that this treaty would you know that's true well I I mean haven't got everything in front of me it contains an echo something that's been doing the rounds on social media and has been shown to be complete hokum but that's why I find it odd to imagine that a Cambridge academic would be inflating it in company well I mean he's a classical academic he's hardly political is like that but now I mention it then it's going okay because that was going around Facebook I've seen it on Facebook this notion that we would there will be some areas where I think that the veto might lose there might be some areas as there are already where the veto would not be as simple to apply but if we were in the European Union we'd be able to to resist any changes to the current state of affairs wouldn't we but not of we lose our veto 2020 no no no no but they couldn't remove the veto without it being democratically endorsed by members well what they think if they say that is a majority decide right this is just your mates at Cambridge again is it it was quite an interesting conversation yeah that we can fool around well of course is doing the rounds in the same way that turkey did the rounds before the European Union referendum everyone was was told that Turkey was imminently joining everybody was told that the German car industry wouldn't canton as any changes to our trading arrangements everyone was told that we couldn't control our borders everyone was told that we had millions of laws foisted upon us and then they couldn't tell me what those laws were so I don't have in front of me everything you need to answer the questions that you're asking but can I can I give you some advice in one simple word of course you can google go to a decent fact-check site and you'll be able to find everything that you need to find Philip Jackson to think Jack what would you like to say you know who said that Jack from Tootsie is that Jack from Tooting what would you like to say Jack oh thank you for taking my call James could you just please give me 30 to 40 seconds just to make some points which I don't believe that I've been made yet you know we've got an aging population obviously so we're always going to need immigration whether it be from the EU Africa China Ilia and the government has not been honest with the public about this we should thank the immigrants for coming here since the Second World War we've welcomed unneeded immigration and they've helped to make this country the fixed or sixth richest country in the world which is slowly fading away now so this government and previous governments have failed to build enough infrastructure for the increased immigration which has come here they failed to build enough houses enough hospitals in our schools etc etc that's why we felt over the with the amount of people that have come here but if you if you invite people to come to your place then obviously you need to build more infrastructure we've taken the money we've taken the money that these people have breathes in country but we've not reinvested it this government and previous governments should apologize to the public and should thank the immigrants for all what they have done I think an awful lot of people who voted leave would agree with you I think part of the problem that we've all been complicit in is creating this idea that everyone who voted to leave would somehow disagree with what you've said everyone I know who voted to leave Jack is supremely comfortable not just comfortable but appreciative of what you've described the simple facts of immigration particularly European Union immigration being a net benefit to our economy and and of course then you look at the NHS and other public services and many people would argue they would struggle to survive without the EU workforce that are currently on the books many people voted to leave because they felt there were too many immigrants here already I know that and you know that and and and they know that and when you ask them where these immigrants are they say not the ones I actually know not the ones I work with not the ones that my children go to school with it's the ones that I read about in the Sun it's the mythical ones that I read about in the comments section of the mail online and here's the challenge Jack because even by the time of the 2015 general election even the Labour Party was sticking slogans on mugs that appeared to play to that to the myth that you've described as a politician how do you how do you sell the optics the positives the benefits of immigration how do you sell them when the bloke on the other side is whispering in the ear they're trying to steal your chops they're trying to steal your women they're trying to steal your money they're trying to steal your biscuits all you've got in his other areas but they haven't and the other bloke just says yeah not yet but they want to that's the challenge Jack that's challenged throughout humanity isn't it between the person whispering false poison into one ear and the person risk whispering dull truths into the other as you get older you need hospitals more so I mean I've been in hospital a number of times most of the nurses there are not British no no you know they're from the EU and they they are diligent they're conscientious and so were the ones that aren't and in fact you you've reminded me Jack of something I intended to do on the program this morning I've already done it on on Twitter I'd like to thank dr. William 2e and all the staff on the start starlight ward at the West Middlesex Hospital in West London um they have earnt the undying the eternal gratitude of my family for events of the last week or so but that that's just a simple fact that you describe that the work force the staff are as multicolored and as multicultural and as diverse and as different as the rest of the country the rest of society but I still don't know how you how'd you make that point because you tell me about the nurses Jack and if I was someone you know taking the need to that despicable breaking point poster I just say something all right well the nurses can stay but we've got to get rid of the rest of them do you see what I mean what about construction then what about construction well you I could stick my head out the window now and find someone in the construction industry who claims that the reason why he hasn't had a pay rise or he can't find work has nothing to do with the fact that he's lazy or not prepared to move and it's everything to do with the fact that people who have prepared to cross continents in search of work of somehow undercut him just what about health care what about health care yeah they can state that don't mean them they can stay it's the others I need to get rid of that's how it works Jack between us you and me might be able to come up with an answer but it would be hard something that's not hard is dealing with Philippine half-filled who was on a moment ago asking about something that someone in Cambridge had asked him and told him about and I suggested Google so I thought I'll do Google ice a bit patronizing just to say goober I googled lose our veto in 2020 first thing that comes up from full fact an independent charity that check stuff is there's a lot wrong with this viral list about the Lisbon Treaty and then it goes through in detail about everything that's wrong with it so Philip mate pain me though it does to have one fly in the ointment of this incredibly harmonious and friendly program you pal were not a good faith actor because if you can't Google it but you can ring a national radio station to ask about it I'd suggest that you might need to give your head a wobble and so here's the thing where does it begin you know oh it's gat 24 is the most article 24 of gap would allow us to do whatever we want for 10 years and get unicorns by teatime and then you hear a particularly on phone in radio programs you hear people ring in and say it and sometimes the presenter doesn't know whether it's true or not so it gets out there then you see on Facebook so I'm very keen to triple-check what Philip in Hatfield suggested or asked us to look into for him possibly in good faith I mean maybe I'm doing him a disservice when I say you should google this stuff before you bring me but if you simply Google do we lose our veto in 2020 this comes up about claims regarding the Lisbon Treaty that are doing the rounds on social media or if you prefer doing the rounds in Cambridge and it appears under the headline which is the first thing on your search terms there's a lot wrong with this viral list about the Lisbon Treaty and the very first thing in the list of things that's wrong addresses directly the claim Philip made about losing our leeta it's quite incredible oh yeah I mean genuinely incredible in many ways so here you go the UK all along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority exceptions with no abstentions or vetoes being allowed that's the claim this is wrong the Lisbon Treaty did make changes to how EU law gets passed which reduced the scope of states veto ability but it did not abolish veto powers and these changes are already in effect rather than coming into force in 2020 the term abstention veto is not even a part of European Union law as you can see by the fact that most Google results for the term are references to this thing that's gone viral in the first place EU legislation has to be approved by the Council of the European Union which is made up of ministerial representatives of the governments of all EU Member States so maybe we should give Philip a break but maybe he was being genuine and and because this person that said it to him is at Cambridge University albeit doing classics who thought there must be something in it but but check just check it's simply not true this is in case it's appeared in your inbox this is what appears at the top of the bogus claims why is nobody talking about the Lisbon Treaty the treaty that comes into force 2020 is worse than the so-called deal if 99% of the British think this is the deal is bad just look at the Lisbon Treaty people need to know leavers and remain as what will actually happen if we stay in the EU as a question no remainder will ever answer but here it is warts and all and it's all wrong it is wrong to say that the Lisbon Treaty comes into force in 2020 do you know why it's wrong to say that the Lisbon Treaty comes into force in 2020 shall I tell you why it's wrong to say that the Lisbon Treaty came into foot comes into force in 2020 because it came into force in 2009 10 years ago as was agreed by EU member countries every single one of them including us in 2007 it has been in place since 2009 if the UK were to remain in the European Union beyond March of 2019 for any reason then the Lisbon Treaty wouldn't suddenly change anything but it's still out there even Cambridge academic calls are falling for it that's how it works so you and I'm not going to single anyone else out for particular criticism but you will be listening to LBC at some point in the next 48 hours and a caller will come on and a caller will claim that this absolute hogwash that has been disseminated and amplified on Facebook is true just as I've heard callers on other programmes talking about article 24 of gap and this is not a normal way to earn a living most people don't spend their days with the noses in the treaties most people doing what I do for a living haven't read the Good Friday Group why would you answer because we owe it to our callers but you will hear a caller on this radio station making reference to this stuff and a presenter may not know that it's not true which is how it happens that's why they do it that's why they promote it is why they tweet it it's why they post it because you just get it out there and you know what they say about a lie it's halfway around the world before the truth has got his trousers on this is probably one of the most depressing things about brexit is how a lie was sent out by dishonest actors knowing it's a lie and it was spread around the internet by people who didn't know any better for the most part I think most people didn't know that what they were sharing on Facebook or on social media in general was a lie you know just after the referendum I remember a reading or someone told me about how a Google search in the UK one of the top Google searches the day after the referendum was what is the EU I don't know if this is true or not but the idea that people would vote for something not knowing what it was and vote themselves out of something not knowing what it was is deeply depressing the idea that you make a vote you make a very important vote you vote on something that's extremely important for you for your children's future for your grandchildren's future and you don't know what you're voting for this is one problem the other problem is you're voting on something that was lied to you you were lied to about this misinformation about this veto for example so it's much easier to get this out and spread across the internet but why why are these people doing it because they're pushing an agenda there are certain people who don't want to end up having to pay more taxes the and I'm not talking about ordinary people and talking about billionaires who don't want to pay more taxes because the European Union are attempting to reform tax laws and that's that's the reason that they want brexit to pass they don't want to be paying extra taxes so they're going to lie and cheat and spread as much misinformation about the EU as possible and what's the sir what's the alternative to that the alternative is people themselves working hard to find the correct information now not in this case it wasn't even hard it was a simple Google search but you have to be you have to be critical of the information that you receive and you know it's it's hardwired in our brains to to like things that we like to share things that we like you know as I said in another video most people will share content by just simply just simply looking at the the title they like the title they'll share it they want to look at the article they won't read in detail what the article says they won't look at alternative articles that are critical of of that first article but they'll just share it and that's that information is spread across the internet to people who have similar and and this similar believes to you and this information sticks and it's very hard to remove this it's like chewing gum on the road you know it's very hard to remove once it's put in place and brexit has been a perfect example of that where brexit was not the information regarding breasts it was not independent transparent objective information it was politically driven and when it's politically driven lies are the first port of call

Brexit – Brexit, Northern Ireland and a United Ireland

Views:13911|Rating:4.66|View Time:17:47Minutes|Likes:206|Dislikes:15
Owen Jones of The Guardian met with the leader of Sinn Fein to talk about Brexit, Ireland and a United Ireland.

Full video here:

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welcome to episode 5 9 6 3 of brexit is a blazing skip I'm here to interview the leader of shin Fame Mary Lou McDonald I've actually it's view too before when I say the Bragg's that is a disaster I'm not saying it from the perspective of somebody who thinks that everything is fine and dandy and that the status quo must prevail brexit has had a few more crises ever since then but it hasn't just enveloped this crisis the island of Britain but also the island of Ireland this is absolutely critical in terms of the future of the Irish peace process that's one of the things I want to talk about but I also want to say or find out what does this mean for Ireland and its future and could it not actually bring forward or make them more likely the great dream of shin feign a United Island Chiqui question you call brexit crazy I'm not for the brexit either I should say campaign against it let me be a bit cheeky here the main cause of Xin Thayne is a united Ireland is it what is it not the case that brexit has made a united Ireland far more likely then it breaks that hadn't happened so isn't it a bit of sweet aren't you there thinking well actually we could get our unity of this it's not bittersweet I mean we don't have a scorched earth policy as regards Irish unity I don't take a simplistic view of the end justifying the means and we are very conscious that we have an obligation to people in terms of jobs in terms of the security of their their families their ability to turn the lights on to put bread on the table and when we say that breaks that is hugely damaging for and we're not exaggerating economically in bread and butter terms that's hugely damaging and it is a direct challenge to the settlement to the arrangements that we have democratically landed on so I mean I mean I'm not sure public I can argue for Irish unity anyhow there's there's change the foot on the island of Ireland in terms of like demographics which is not always my first quarter call I don't like this idea of you know out breeding the Europe position to get constitutional change but the Democratic graphic trends are clear but also the the politics has changed on the island there's a real sense of an appetite for progress on modernity and so on which i think is really encouraging and also bury this in mind the northern stage was based on the premise of an inbuilt unionist majority for ever and ever and ever that's gone now it's gone in the last two elections so all of those things are in the mix but if you're asked me am i secretly delighted the bragg's that happened the answer to that is no but there was a certain isn't there my mom obviously we weren't poor and she's in the rain she's visiting maybe in the 1970s she was part of the British left and through their big causes of course were a radical socialist government and a united Ireland there is a certain irony about the Tory direct city right have made two of those things more likely yeah yeah there is I mean it's it is quite something I'll tell you what's even more amazing is that the Democratic Unionist Party have had such a hand and all of this your your viewers should know that the DPP do not repeat do not represent the views or the wishes of the majority of the people of the north of Ireland they are a very strong political would represent would you say they represent what they represent I think in many senses people who are prepared to tolerate just about anything and yes to vote for a party simply because they will transiently defend the union with Britain and I respect people's rights to take that political position that political view to argue for the Union but you know it is the year 2019 we're not back in the 1600s and it is in my view all kinds of crazy that people rational decent people would tolerate a DUP agenda that's about denying rights to people by the way rights that are freely enjoyed here in Britain and freely enjoys in the part of Ireland that I live in like equal marriage for example well equal marriage women's health care you know we had a very significant change to our constitutional arrangements in terms of the Eighth Amendment and access to abortion it was quite a landmark in Irish politics that always puzzles me how it is that people would tolerate that's that that absolution systems aren't denying people rights as though recognising somebody's rights was any real cost to you that doesn't diminish you it just allows people to live freely there's often a basic lack of understanding of just the fundamentals of Irish politics and of the Republican reasoning so if I asked for example on Twitter what should I ask the leadership thing I know that people go why don't they just take their seats can you just accept and why can't they take their seats in Westminster can you clearly and succinctly explain to these people no offense guys read a book though why that is not gonna happen you see what British people and I say this with great affection and particularly perhaps English people and I say this with greater affection I need to understand is that we were colonized yet and the border in Ireland is was part of that colonial retreat from our country and that it's scarred Ireland and it divided us and it caused conflict and so on so there's a long history to abstention ISM and I understand on a very superficial every so well why in the name of God won't they come and settle Parliament but if I was to put it to somebody who was elected from your home constituency which is my home I grew up in Stockport okay Stockport if say well why won't you go to France and why won't you serve me the prayer why won't you sit Parliament you would see that as an absurdity but it's equally so first you see we're not kind of pretending that we're not that we're not British like we genuinely aren't and we genuinely have our own systems of government within the context of hundreds of years of colonialism and let's be honest famine mass murder it's not it's not a reasonable ask for somebody to swear allegiance to a foreign power that's kind of that's crazy and it's not gonna happen so I was asked on a number of occasions in the comment section to describe how I feel about Northern Ireland and so I thought this would be a good opportunity to talk about Northern Ireland a united Ireland and brexit and how they're all linked so to start off em Owen and the shin Fane president or leader this was a good interview it was an interesting perspective from both the British point of view and Northern Ireland point of view um what can I say so the situation in Northern Ireland is price is quite strange it's a in a sense it's a country or it's a part of the UK that is 30 or 40 years behind the rest of the UK and for many British people you know people who live on in England for example or in Wales and Scotland but principally in England it's a forgotten place you know if you ask the average English person about Northern Ireland they'll be quite ignorant and I don't mean this in a negative way just they're somewhat ignorant of the situation in Northern Ireland because our Northern Ireland is not front and center in British politics it's a peripheral part of the UK so you know English people living in London or in a different in Manchester or Birmingham or wherever they're you know they have their own problems to deal with and Northern Ireland is not at the top of you know at the top of their priorities so what is the situation there you have two main parties you have the DUP the Democratic Unionist Party and you have shin Fane so on the DUP is a party that wants Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK by any means necessary now to give you a bit of background the DUP was founded by a fundamentalist Christian who ran his own religion in a sense he wasn't part of another denomination he set up his own religion and most of the members of that party are also part of that religion I think it's a free presbyterian church is the name of the religion and he he ran it as pretty much his own project he run the party as his own project and it was a party founded on the idea of rejecting any type of change and if you look at the party itself and the religion that he found it you know these are a group of people who believed that the earth is 6,000 years old who have a fundamentalist religious ideology and they are attempting to put a brake on any type of progress be it political social or religious taking place in Northern Ireland that's what I mean is that Northern Ireland is somewhat 30 years behind the UK or the Republic of Ireland now the Republic of Ireland have made a huge change in the last five to ten years principally because of the economic boom that that's been taking place over the last 20 years but the last 10 5 10 years a social upheaval has taken place you had a country that was under the under the boot of the Catholic Church and they've completely thrown that off knock'em well I shouldn't say completely but to a great deal so to give you an example recently there was the same-sex marriage laws and the abortion laws which were completely reformed repealed I should say so you had same-sex marriage legalized in Ireland and you had abortion legalized in Ireland and to say the last time there was a referendum in Ireland regarding abortion was in 1983 and it was the it was a vote to keep abortion we should say just to keep it simple passed by something like 80 80 percent or 85 percent to keep abortion you had the complete opposite take place just a couple of years ago or just last year or whenever it was recently anyway so just to give you an idea of how society has changed there was a fear that the abortion referendum would be passed in you know Dublin which is more modern more progressive while the countryside would would vote keep the the current situation but in reality even the most per provincial parts of Ireland the most the poorest areas the the more country areas the as in a sense the more rare rural areas sorry they had voted to to change the law to appeal repeal the 8th amendment which kept abortion illegal so that had that was a big change they also the the prime minister of Ireland is is is an open openly gay prime minister so this is something that is completely has completely changed the landscape in Ireland so compare that to Northern Ireland where you have two main parties one party who believes that the earth is 6,000 years old that abortion should be illegal under I think all circumstances and who want by any means necessary to keep the UK within Northern Ireland even even if it's even if it's necessary to change by Democratic means the DUP don't want it to change so on the other side you have shin Fane and in this interview you had the president of shin Fane the leader of shin Fane and shin Fane realized that the situation in the UK the situation in the Republic of Ireland is changing and they have realized that we have to ride this wave they see the they see an opportunity for them to push a united Ireland and she was very shrewd in her in her language where she said that she doesn't want a united Ireland by any means necessary she wants it in the best means necessary but in the sense that the people themselves decide to have a united Ireland and if you imagine that you know their people in Northern Ireland especially the new generation who haven't experienced the the troubles the the problems of the past the security problems the the killings everything like that these people young people today what are their priorities their priorities are having a job having a home having a secure situation economically socially the ability to travel around Europe if they have the skills to have a better job they don't want to be locked in a small part of Europe at the edge of Europe and I don't mean the European Union I mean physically Europe the edge of Europe run by a group of politicians who believe that the earth is 6,000 years old and that they have to stay with within the UK by any means necessary so young people are not politically driven they have their own ideas and if they're looking towards something a better life they they won't decide as their parents or grandparents did you know their grandparents and parents would vote according to their religion Catholic would vote Republican or nationalist and Protestant would vote unionist or loyalist people today don't have these motivations or they do exist but to a lesser extent people are more interested in having a job as I've said having a secure future so they're not going to vote for the people who hold them back they're going to say you know to hell with the politics of the past I'm going to vote for who is looking after my interests who wants to keep us in Europe and at the moment shin vain are the only party who are presenting the idea of being anti brexit the DUP are completely supportive of brexit they want out of Europe they want just to be within the UK and if the UK leaves the European Union is going to be catastrophic for Northern Ireland I've said in another video Northern Ireland receives billions of euro every year to support their economy to support their society to support peace and if that money is taken away it's just going to be a catastrophic failure it's going to be extremely dangerous for politicians for the security security services and people are going to say why are we why are we leaving the European Union why are we destroying our future to satisfy these politicians

Brexit – James O'Brien Brexiteer's Greatest Hits

Views:15355|Rating:4.69|View Time:9:10Minutes|Likes:213|Dislikes:14
James O’Brien presents some of the biggest and worst lies by brexiteers and brexiters and how they have been proven to be wrong.

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well not as a phone-in topic I will not be able to resist a few choice asides I may even treat you to one of my famous collage of clips but um I just don't see the point today nothing's gonna change until I mean at least until Parliament gets back I'll give you a quick heads-up though for my new podcast our monday weekend clark and the pleasure of spending about 4550 minutes with him yesterday with the tapes rolling man in life it was wonderful there's my bomb for the solar node in the context of Europe the Ken Clark and I both recognize reality so we're on the same sort of team there but amazing really isn't it that a former Chancellor conservative Chancellor and Home Secretary and other great offices of states has managed to retain a degree of admiration and respect from all corners of the political spectrum it's a really really interesting conversation I can't say it's a brilliant interview because I conducted it and I only let through epic conceits like that by accident never on purpose but it's if I if you listen to what Ken Clark says in this interview that isn't brilliant you'll love it it's required listening and it's really refreshing as well actually to remind ourselves of the fundamental humanity of politicians I think at a time again when we need to portray them as either 100% sinner or 100% saint and the horror of that scenario quite deliberately I think engineered in America and Britain lately and they've having a go at doing it in other countries it is to create an environment in which Donald Trump can literally say the polar opposite of what he said yesterday as he did with WikiLeaks as we demonstrated in the last hour if you create enough confusion nobody can be held to their own previous statement which is an astonishing genuinely astonishing state of affairs and so so what we have today is the deal brexit planning which is breathtaking actually I've been figures very I've seen it reported variously as one and a half billion pounds and as 4.2 billion pounds spent on planning that is now on ice call what an absolute waste you know we're still paying for the ferries that Chris Grayling organized there we've been paying for them since March the 29th these people and of course the threat of no deal or the notion that somehow we'd get the European Union to bow to our will by threatening to punch ourselves in the face was never ever ever going to work Jonathan Porter's from King's College explaining a great piece in The Times and I think November 20 2017 why this was ludicrous i sat here day after day after day saying I promise you this isn't a tactic the reason why is and it was as you never go into a negotiation without being prepared to walk away and the whole point of that observation which is usually true is that when you walk away you walk back to where you started so in the context of I can't believe I still have to say this in 2019 but I hope I don't come across as I was too sort of self congratulatory it doesn't feel like a time for congratulations by any stretch of the imagination you still got people standing up in Parliament inflating the bonkers balloon of No Deal still I think I heard David Davis saying it yesterday the man's failure to understand the simplest of issues should as we said have excluded him from any further involvement in any breaks it related debates but here's the simplest of simple things you don't threaten to walk away from a negotiation if you don't know where you're walking to you only say right that's it I'm not buying this house after all if you then get to stay in your old house right you drive your car to the dealership and you start negotiating for a new car possibly on part exchange with the old car you don't drive your car to the scrap yard stick it in the crusher and then go to the car dealership on the bus threatening to walk away if you don't get the deal that you want on the new car because you haven't got a car to get into anymore that's why this line No Deal but it is better than a bad deal was the single most stupid and there's a lot of competition but the single most stupid gambit that Teresa may chose to employ she chose it as with all the other stupid things she's done in order to keep the headbangers the racists and the liars quiet on the fringes of her own party and beyond it failed because it wasn't true and she's now reduced to essentially saying any deal is better than no deal which was true all along so the line about having to be prepared to walk away with no deal has probably done more damage to the public's understanding of why we're in this mess than almost any other and I've got a little tape to prove it because now of course the claim is everybody knew that they were voting for No Deal it was correct from the beginning that they were voting for No Deal it's the only real brexit they would deliver the will of those people the seventeen point four million and of course not long ago the same people saying that or some of the same people saying that was saying something very different any Prime Minister anyone doing the negotiating can almost pick and choose is that they are part of a free trade area and that's the one thing I think we can take for granted so negotiating a free trade agreement will be as easy as we want it to be it's not as if we're India where the history and the culture and the trade terms and so on a very very different they are completely aligned negotiate absolutely we're already inside single market they have obligations as not to be imposed by trade tariffs or barriers that already exist well I have no doubts at all we will carry on trading tariffs free without tariffs with the European Union Territory which means a single market well that's pretty tricky sit down you wanna be better for us we'll be better than the Europeans have amongst themselves that's rather the point access to the European market will be maintained and access to other markets around the world will be increased there that's really much of the argument for for leave do we really believe that in Germany the car workers would accept the losing jobs as the price of the vanity of a particular leader do you really believe that a french president or prime minister would deliberately seek to restrict french farmers access to our markets I don't think that's credible a free-trade arrangement that continues to give access services will come up with a UK solution and part of that will be keeping the very very satisfactory and extremely integrated arrangements we have with the Republic of Ireland they've looked back at how that article came into the treaties and the whole purpose of it was to avoid an economic shock for both sides if somebody left these should be lodged under a brexit ears greatest hits but what's truly sad about the situation is not that these people were wrong or that they were incompetent but the fact that these people are being continually pointed to for their for their opinions on the currency on the current status of brexit how these people are valued by the media how they're given their own radio channels they're given articles to write in newspapers how they're interviewed continually by the BBC or by the mainstream media why are these people given such a platform when they've been proven without doubt to be wrong on everything that they've presented they presented brexit is something overwhelmingly positive for the UK and they've been proven that it's overwhelmingly damaging to the British country people and the economy how do these people manage to maintain a face after what they've presented in the asked the fact being is that because brexit and politics have become so polarized anything that they have said will be forgotten anything that they have said would be presented in a different context so no matter what they have said in the past people are indifferent to the lies to the incompetence because there's a bigger picture the bigger picture being brexit needs to pass brexit needs to come to be Breck's it needs to happen and anything that has been said in the past is is no longer important we just have to look at what they have to say now and unfortunately things are just going to get worse from from now on

Eddie Mair destroys Brexiter MP over Leave Campaign crimes

Views:22119|Rating:4.87|View Time:12:34Minutes|Likes:365|Dislikes:10
Eddie Mair 11 April 2019

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Oh Dan you are an incorrigible delinquents at times yourself an a live lied to college green at Westminster where David Jones is waiting thank you for your patience he was a brexit minister he is the Conservative MP for Claude West are you warm in our LBC tent it's very snug yes thank good good I'm glad we're looking after you who will you go as at Halloween Theresa May or Donald Tusk the question is whether we ever get to tell a Halloween Politico we'll get to Halloween well we guess but politically speaking what will happen before then and I think quite a few things are likely to happen I think one one thing that is more or less certain to happen is that the Prime Minister will have to step aside and be replaced by another leader and that of course will do a lot to change the game well if I may not that the post of Prime Minister isn't important but I think for most people listening interested though they are in that the future of brexit is is probably more important you you're not saying which party by the way you might vote for in the European elections actually I did okay I've made it clear to you referring to the BBC Wales report yes yeah I I went on BBC world this morning made a point I've never voted for any party other than the Conservatives and what would I ever do so will you definitely vote at the European elections if they happen yeah yes but on that point I think is extremely important to to point out that this is an exercise that's going to cost 108 million pounds and it's very lovely Chris Grayling could get dozens of fairies but it's it's also very likely that those who take up their seats if in fact we have that election we'll probably be sitting there for a maximum of four months and I think it's quite unreasonable to expect candidates to slug the streets for several weeks in order to be elected to a parliament in which they will probably not be participating evil will make that choice won't they why do you think brexit hasn't happened I mean there'll be many reasons for it but principally who's responsible for that do you think I think frankly it's a lack of will on the part of the British government the the the legal structure is in place the Commons passed all the necessary legislation including the withdrawal Act which prescribed you'll recall the 29th of March as the date and then it became very clear that the government was getting cold feet about leaving without a negotiated agreement even though that was what was provided for in the act and is now doing its level best to ensure that if we do leave it's going to be on the softest terms possible so you think it's the lack of will on the part of the British government do you think that levers who made during the referendum campaign have over promised and ultimately under delivered do you think they bear any responsibility for brexit not yet happening no I don't think so because once the referendum process was completed then became an issue for the government to deliver the government of course has been hampered by the fact that we had a fairly advised general election in 2017 which of course wiped out the overall majority well before we come to the election let's let's look at what was promised during the referendum Liam Fox coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history John redwood getting out of the EU can be quick and easy Boris Johnson there are plenty people who now think the cost of getting Ike would be virtually nil that was all nonsense wasn't it do any of those people and others who said similar things bear any responsibility for brexit not yet happening well well look you're obviously asking me to defend things that other people have said but what I would say is that if I'm asking you whether those people and others bear responsibility for brexit not happening no I don't I don't think at all because as I say once the referendum was out of the once the legislation was in place it was up to the government to deliver brexit and there was no reason why they should and in fact you probably recall that the Prime Minister made a speech in January of 2017 at Lancaster House which was probably the best speech that she's made on the issue of brexit in which he spelled out a vision of a free trade agreement or of a good relationship with the European Union that wouldn't impede our trade in good relations with the rest of the world and to get back to that election after the election of 2017 that stopped and I think that that was where the lack of will crept in well I want to press you further if I may on this question of responsibility because in my experience when you ask arch levers in the Conservative Party why brexit hasn't happened and what's gone wrong it always seems to be someone else it's never the BRICS is supporting brexit ministers who were in charge apparently they were all who'd linked hoodwinked by a a cabal of remain supporting civil servants it's not the brexit secretary dominic arab who confessed in November he hadn't quite understood hi reliant UK trade in goods is on davekeli it's always those pesky Europeans leave us told us EU countries would fall out during negotiations and succumb to leave demands or or even recently given at the eleventh hour they haven't have they and I just wonder whether they the promises of it's all going to be easy are part of why this hasn't worked Eddie I you you recall that I haven't blamed the Europeans at all during this conversation what I have blamed is frankly a lack of will on the part of of the British government never the levers well the government comprises levers and remain errs you know you can't actually fractionalize a government the government should have been proceeding with a very active process of preparation for leaving the European Union they should have been publicizing the fact that we're doing that they should not have agreed to the sequencing of the talks that the EU insisted upon in in other words they didn't stand up to the EU and I I'll be frank with you it has not been well handled I'm not complaining at all about the European Union but would you complain about some of those levers I've quoted I would I'm not personalizing people but the limb foxy is in government but you know John redwood is not in government he he is not responsible for the conduct or the negotiations he's responsible for what comes out of his mouth though yes but he has an opinion as we all do um leave Tory you broke electoral law and was fined 70,000 pounds leave dot EU and an insurance company owned by aran banks has been fined a hundred and twenty thousand pounds over data law breaches do you think the referendum was crooked no I don't I I was involved in the referendum campaign really from the beginning of 2016 I saw no evidence that it was crooked by the way about the evidence like well I own the alleged Commission's find well just a moment leave dot EU was not you'll recall the designated campaign Erin banks was not part of the designated campaign yeah I mean it was a complex campaign and the Electoral Commission has come to certain conclusions I agree with some I will accept the conclusions of the Electoral Commission but what I can say is that I saw no evidence at all of any wrongdoing and I was very closely involved with the campaign for many months so we have all of the promises made by some of those levers I quoted we have leave dot EU breaking electoral law who were not the designated campaigner well that that that difference may be lost on people who were reading the messages on Facebook you think that they're not lost on you Eddie and you know the difference and what's the difference to people reading the messages well if the designated campaign was vote leave as you know and vote leave it was nothing to do with Aaron banks he had no participation in their activities at all so we have the we have the promises made which have not been delivered the promises made by leave supporters we have what happened to during the campaign and now all we hear from some hard brexit conservative MPs either it's really time to get rid of Theresa May nevermind the millions of people and businesses who are whose lives are on hold let's change the leader do you think millions of people in this country those people who sincerely want out of the EU do you think they deserve to be led by something better than a bunch of cheatin chances right for their own political and financial ends again that's your characterization which I don't accept at all and in fact if you'd like to say which is the cheating chance of it you're referring to you know maybe I could comment did we just talk about what happened to leave dot EU well we did and I reminded you that leave dot EU were not the the designated campaign nor a leave dot EU anything to do with government I have made it clear that I think that the difficulty was a lack of the part of government a lack of preparation poor above the poor agreement of the sequencing of the talks that were demanded by the European Union and I'm not blaming the EU at all but what I am saying is that we could have been better led look it will be better led by the leave the leave side before during and after the referendum is really my question because the obsession with getting rid of tourism a continues and brexit still hasn't been delivered is it not time to chafe or thanks people to change the subject forgive me I'm not I'm not obsessed with lives at all if that's what you are actually suggesting what I'm saying to you is that I think that tourism a who has I think attempted to deliver what she thinks is in the national interest is not really going to be able to take this process very much further because she stymied and I think that now is the time for the reset button to be pressed and for a new leader to commence the negotiations in what way she stymied would you say because quite clearly she will not be able to get the withdrawal agreement through Parliament reversion well the issue is that Teresa Mays withdrawal agreement is not going to fly I'm not suggesting for a moment that that withdrawal agreement will get through the House of Commons at all because clearly it won't it's been defeated three times once by the biggest majority in British parliamentary history and I think that is time for a new negotiation with Europe Union that is going to result in something that is far more likely to fly than the withdrawal agreement which I don't think will who would do a better job well that's a matter for consideration and you know my and colleagues would no doubt be considering that Theresa maze made it clear that she wants to step down soon she says she'll step down when the withdrawal agreement has gone through well maybe you should have some idea of who should take over I just wonder for you I've got some private views but I think is frankly premature for me to to share theirs now you're urging the country to press the reset button on the Prime Minister but won't tell us who you think should take over what in due course I will but but the fact the fact is that at this particular stage I'm not prepared to share it well this comes down to my suggestion that there are some people and I'm not accusing you of this but there are some people I'm suggesting to you who are using this national crisis for their own political ends no I I firmly reject that I think that that is completely wrong I'm glad that you said that I'm not doing that because I certainly am NOT I actually would support the withdrawal agreement if the Irish backstop can be removed the Irish backstop is what destroys British sovereignty it what it's what potentially removes Northern Ireland from the Union and I'm not prepared to sell down the river you wonder why during the referendum campaign Boris Johnson dismissed questions about the Irish border well you know you're asking me questions for the people and really those questions would be far better directed of the people you your query thanks very much for taking the time well thank you for sitting in our warm tent and if you're a politician thinking about which program to appear on bear in mind I warm and cozy the global LBC ten days on College Green that was David Jones who was a brexit minister he is the Conservative MP for Claude West

Brexit – EU at war with itself over Brexit

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The EU leadership argued over whether an extention for the UK to leave the union was a good idea or not. Anti-Brexit T-Shirt Pro-Brexit …

Brexit – The EU will Throw May not Ireland Under a Bus

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The European Union’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, has pledged support for the Irish border backstop regardless of what happens in the Brexit negotiations.

Full Article:

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so in a guardian article today it's been said that chief negotiator Michele Barney has met with the Irish Prime Minister and he said that the EU will pledge complete support for a backstop in the event of a No Deal brexit now what does that mean it basically means that the EU are not willing to throw the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland under a bus as as a means to serve as a as some type of help for Theresa May and brexit errs what that means is that until until now the EU has been quiet while brexit errs and Teresa may have been playing hardball with them have been presenting them as the enemy as someone who's intransigent intransigent is not willing to negotiate is not willing to respect rules or come to some type of compromise and what the EU is doing in now in return is saying okay if if you want to have a trade agreement after a No Deal then you're going to have to first have the backstop in place the funny thing is is that the UK had actually requested a backstop and the UK and the EU had signed up to it and the UK in return signed up as as part of the agreement so the backstop was agreed many months ago and now Tory brexit hers and people like Boris Johnson are saying that the the backstop is a problem and the backstop needs to be removed so what brexit errs had hoped and in a very naive sense they believed that back many months ago they believed that the European Union would pressure Ireland the Republic of Ireland to drop any requests for a backstop even though the UK and European Union has signed up to it but Tory Breck Cedars had believed that if they put if Teresa may could put pressure on the European Union they would drop the hope of having a backstop now they seem to be either ignorant or stupid or both because since 1998 the Good Friday Agreement an agreement signed a referendum the will of the people a referendum signed in 1998 on the United on the entire island of Ireland north and south to have an agreement of trade and cross-border cooperation one of the biggest supporters of this was both the United States but also the European Union the European Union said we will support you in any way we can and since 1998 the European Union has have pumped billions of euros into Northern Ireland for reconstruction projects for cross-border trade and education and cultural products a project sorry and also projects to support peace peace on on the island of Ireland so peace projects between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland between north and south and the European Union has invested a great deal of time and money in supporting the Good Friday Agreement and Tory brexit are seemed to believe that the European Union are going to throw all of that away in order to satisfy Theresa May and Tory brexit errs because they believe that whatever trade exists between the European Union and the UK will supersede any type of support they have for the Good Friday Agreement there they're thinking in a very local sense they believe well of course they'll they put trade over peace because that's what we would do Tory brexit er seem to think that the you that the EU and other countries within the EU think like they do first we think about money corruption and then we think about politics they don't seem to understand how the EU works and have clearly demonstrated that the EU is going to support now maybe they'll turn around and not do it but it'd be extremely I'd be extremely surprised if they did that but they're going to support to the Europe the European Union first and the Republic of Ireland because it's part of the European Union I don't know how I can I can't I have to stress this the European Union is not going to throw ireland under a bus north or south it has too much invested in it and finally the Republic of Ireland is a member state of the European Union the UK is deciding to leave so who would you support more someone who's staying within your club or someone who's leaving the club at the end of the day I think this is where the problem lies Tory brexit errs and to a lesser extent labourer Exeter's seem to think that the European Union thinks in the same way as they do in the corrupt local nationalistic point of view and they're going to find out in the in a hard way how wrong they are

Brexit – James O'Brien Destroys Brexiteer Caller

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James O’Brean destroys a brexiteer caller by asking him about facts. Anti-Brexit T-Shirt Pro-Brexit T-Shirt …

Brexit – James O'Brien the Trouble Brexiteer David Davis

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James O’Brien spoke about one of the biggest idiots of brexit, David Davis and how he is still given a platform after he was exposed as completely inept on the subject.

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I suppose again I'm in that difficult position this morning of wanting to talk to you when you're probably not that likely to bring me um because if you just wanted to howl wrong David Davis would have to be about everything before you started listening to him stopped listening to him before you stopped thinking that he was a valid voice now in this debate I'm focusing on David Davis because he was Secretary of State for leaving the European Union he was photographed with nothing on the table in front of him as Michele Barney I sat there with pages of files and and facts in front of him and when asked about it they was tapped his temple you think I'm making this up he said who are you gonna trust more the guy with all the paperwork in front of him all the guy who's got it all out here and he tapped his temple I could not believe my ears this morning when Alex Campbell actually tweeted amusingly and I appreciate Alice there is a controversial and divisive character but he understands the workings of government and arguably the relationship between politics and media better than almost anybody else and he tweeted lightheartedly about who was gonna get the 10 past 8 slot on radio falls today program this morning where will it be in dr. Smith will David David something like that was a joke and there not be popped utterly utterly discredited in just in the context of observable evidence nothing about his personality or anything like that I'm not today although I reserve the right to return to such territory in the very very imminent future I just if you voted leave and David Davis is one of the people who persuaded you to do so actually no one even admits that in public anymore do they in public people voted leave precisely because they knew the remain campaign were right have you seen this yet you're probably not as exposed to it as I am this is the latest chapter in the in the madness so you you you you get a leave person on social media are responding to a suggestion that they didn't know what they were voting for although they were lied to and they respond by saying no we knew exactly what was going on here's David Cameron telling us and you sort of go I've seen some contour shion's in my time but really you've you've let them reduce you to this the people who you believed have betrayed you so completely that you're now claiming that the people you actually believed were the ones that you voted against I don't get that on any level except pride I suppose and self-preservation and of course there's always that difficulty of knowing who's real and who is a bad faith actor whether they're just in it for clicks and giggles or whether they're trolling for more sinister reasons or whether they're part of a sort of paid army of disruptors but the bottom line is that David Davis has been proven categorically wrong about everything since he started campaigning to leave the European Union and yet today still and there's there is criticism isn't quite the right word there's questioning here of course there is of people that I I love and respect and work alongside but I just want you to tell me how bad it would have to be before he got excluded from future contributions to these conversations because today he's still talking gibberish about the solution to the problem of the British border in Ireland that we've got we've called the alternative arrangements we just can't tell you what it is yet it gets incredible to me now that is these constant confirmations of reality continued master 29s not a chance what are you reduced to now No Deal you're shilling for no deal is Andrew Britain still talking about article 24 of of GATT and this stuff has been demonstrably demolished it's been completely dismantled Emmanuel macron last night was reportedly agitating to pushes over the cliff sooner rather than later and yet people like David Davis still claim they're going to reopen the withdrawal agreement weeks after we're supposed to have left right up until the date on which we were supposed to leave they explained and insisted ad infinitum we're not going to reopen it we got 27 governments to agree to it you can't get one oh well I'm David Davis I'm the only one who understands this stuff everybody else just wallowing around in my wake and still he gets a seat in the studio I don't get it anymore and now our heart is if you've got a program to fill and he's prominent he's a big nail cop we can't get for a françoise we could get David Davis today but in a way I understand why you'd book a bridging or a Francoise for comedy value the David Davis is treated like a serious player he's a joke he is a national actor Malloy he is an international joke he's an interplanetary joke and yet this weird brexit bubble that Britain continues to inhabit still treats him like a serious player and I don't know what I'm even asking you today I think I'm just asking gee why I remember reading a few months after the referendum result had come in about the European negotiator that the British government had been using for many years a person who had built up a lot of experience dealing with European matters dealing with the Europeans and understanding how they tick and how to negotiate with them and because this man unfortunately had presented himself as someone who supported remain he was completely he was removed from this position and I thought well this was a weird thing to do you know okay maybe you don't like his politics you don't like him supporting remaining in the European Union but he's probably the best person for the job and under pressure from brexit errs Teresa may put in place a brexit her so the idea being best person to negotiate brexit would be a brexit er but maybe a person who actually had some type of experience would have been better and instead they put in David Davis I remember just shortly after this happened a prominent youtuber sargon of akkad had commented on this and he had talked about how fantastic it was that David Davis arrived at the negotiations with Michel Barnier without any documentation without anything in his hand now for me this is pure hubris but the idea that you arrive to intimidate the chief negotiator of the European Union by arriving with with your hands empty was first of all life in my opinion idiotic but it demonstrated that he had no experience of negotiating and he also I think in the first two hours or something he had completely turned and agreed to whatever Bernier had suggested so that the idea of sending someone who had no experience simply because they were a brexit er demonstrated to me ok this this government is not serious you decided to remove someone who was competent and replaced them with someone who's incompetent simply because they take a box now the idea that someone would arrive at a negotiation with empty without a folder without a piece of paper in their hand let me give an analogy some years ago I worked with a guy who who had previously worked in security and one day he told me that they were having a they had a problem with someone stealing jewelry it was a jewelry shop and he was head of security and they had a problem with someone who was stealing jewelry who was also an employee and they didn't have any evidence they couldn't find how she was stealing they couldn't find any evidence of her stealing but they believed it was the case so in order to to deal with this he had a very novel approach what he did was he called her into his office and he piled up he had a pile of papers and a set of videotapes and he asked her ok did you have you stolen anything like this we we have evidence of you stealing we have a report here I've been following you for the last few months and at the end she having she having seen this pile of papers in front of her and this set of videotapes without any without actually seeing what was in the documents or without seeing what was on the videotapes the videotapes apparently were empty he had just piled them up to them to intimidate and in this case this she said yes okay I I was stealing and she was fired em and they agreed not to press charges but just to let her go now you can you can debate the ethics of that but this is a negotiating technique this is an intimidation technique and the idea that you go up against the chief negotiator of the European Union Michele Barney without a piece of paper in your hand and instead point to your head and say I have it all up here demonstrates that you have no experience and you have no ability to negotiate and but I think for David Davis he actually believed what he had been saying for the past the past months before the referendum you know there are two two groups of brexit errs those who lied and those who actually believed the crap that they were talking and I have a feeling that David Davis actually falls into the the latter group he actually believed what he was talking about and he believed that it would be the easiest deal in history it would be something you can a deal made over a cup of tea and without any without any problems and Britain would be better off outside Europe I think he had said I think David James O'Brien had said that they would exit the European Union and join the biggest a group in the world ten times bigger than the European Union so someone who would say something like that can you imagine going to do a negotiation on behalf of 60 million people it's from that moment I said to myself okay this is not going to go very well

Brexaggedon – Remoaners say 2017 is the year we'll see the consequences of voting LEAVE!

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#Brexaggedon – #Remoaners say 2017 is the year we’ll see the consequences of voting #LEAVE!

As #Brexageddon had failed miserably to materialise by the end of what was an historic year, #Remoaners moved the goalposts by warning that this will be the year that we will see the devastating consequences of our actions by voting to leave the European Union.

Well, it hasn’t started too badly so far;

1. Manufacturing is up.
2. Services are up.
3. Exports are up.
4. Foreign investment continues as normal.
5. FTSE 100 is at a record high.

Not to mention consumer confidence and record levels of employment.

One week in to 2017 – So far, so good!

Perhaps these pathetic #Remoaners meant next week.

“Suck-in #Remoaners – the UK is going GLOBAL”

Video footage courtesy of and ©2017 (Official) for which I am extremely grateful.


By registering your support, you will receive regular updates and news;

#Article50 #BrexitMEANSBrexit #ChangeBritain #UKLeaveEUCampaign #Brexit #LeaveEU #EUReferendum #BetterOffOut #BrexitBritain #GlobalBritain #EUSpring #No2EU #HighCourt #SupremeCourt #Brevolution #Brexaggedon #Remoaners #UKEconomy #FTSE100

The Nigel Farage Show – Nigel Schools Remoaner Of The Year On 350m NHS Figure – 22/06/2017

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The Nigel Farage Show – Nigel Schools Remoaner Of The Year On 350m NHS Figure – 22/06/2017

Ben from Chingford should do some research.. It’s pretty clear that the Tory led ‘Vote Leave’ campaign had nothing to do with Leave.EU and Grassroots Out campaigns during the EU referendum in 2016. But yet, Nigel Farage always seems to get the blame from the MSM and lefty remoaners for the £350 Million NHS figure. It just goes to show how public opinion is being manipulated and the non-informed lap it up as some sort of truth. Wake up Britain.


I mean cool been inching but how did you vote this time last year hi hi Nigel yes so I did vote remain but that was my decision I was actually concentrating on on voting out and I'll tell you the reason why it was actually mainly the 350 million pound a week that was going to go back into the NHS which you so brilliantly decided to plaster over the side of a double bonus and I'll tell you what that guys I tell you what I tell you what I tell you what I've been what them I don't want them I tell you what them then I tell you well let's start again shall we our survey said yeah it's not again let's start again xu8 know it would have been Ben Ben Ben you've got to listen for a second I've done you're obviously not a regular listener to the show because we've done this time and time and time again I never once mentioned the figure of 350 million a week for the NHS and I did say publicly on question time during the campaign but I thought the figure was a mistake a much lower figure should have been used and I urge like begged Michael gave it up and others in private to drop the figure because it was too high all right so don't don't put that on me all right so just answer the question is Nigel so how many millions of votes do you think you'd lose now that people know that that pig is incorrect well how we give them the figure bem let's say the figure of 220 million a week had been used right that figure would have stunned everybody anyway so actually 350 million a week wouldn't get one vote more than 220 million a week and I just wish they'd used a net figure and not a gross figure but I mean if it's if it's a competition about lies and we do bear in mind that you know 40 years ago the establishment told people in the referendum they were voting the state part of a common market that was about trade and would not affect their political sovereignty so you could argue because you're not that the other side have been conning us for half a century no I think the argument is neither is that your side Kondos when it was most important your side put across the fact that they were going to deliver 350 million pounds a week to the NHS which they have failed to do you've got absolutely no intention of doing so whatsoever and it's absolutely despicable I watched your interview you on good morning good morning TV then it the next day with Susanna Reid and it was embarrassing it was utterly embarrassing you're a it was a disgrace you lied to the British public you've laid back what about what about about the figure they specifically sat down and said you are you good at this are you going to send this money to the NHS there's 350 50 million pounds a week and you stuttered and you mumbled and you cut her off and as you always do the 350 million pounds a week we sent to the EU which we will no longer send to the EU can you guarantee that's going to go to the NHS no I can't and I would never have made that claim that was one of the mistakes I think with lead campaign mate when a moment that was one of your advert was one of my adverts I'm sure that was one of the leave campaign quality we're going to go to the NH I think they were silent many people have voted they made a mistake in doing that what I can tell you is we have a nice alternative after 17 million people have voted for leave yeah based I don't know how many people voted on the basis that bad fur but that was a huge part of the propaganda you're nothing that's a mistake we have a 10 billion pound a year 34 million pounds of a featherbed that is going to be free money that we can spend on the NHS on schools or whatever it is but you're not guaranteeing that that money as promised okay do you watch f you must understand I was ostracized by the official leave campaign I did mine as I've always done how do you think you think there are other things that people will wake up this morning and find out aren't going to happen as a result of voting this way well I think what they will find out that we're back to being an all country in charge of our own laws and able to start making our own relationships with the rest of the world maybe even re-engaging by the Commonwealth then then then then you've got a real problem here mate you know you may well have this conversation with Boris if you want to I never once put the Tigger 350 in in the way never once defended it I thought it was a mistake we should have used they should have used the net figure of 220 and I promise you had it been to 20 minute a week on those posters or 350 it wouldn't have made any difference at all do you get that point or not now yes certainly yeah of course at these so the figure was in it the figure was incorrect granted you know you've admitted that so it makes me now but 220 million pounds a week will be delivered to the NHS now that we've decided to leave the European Union when I tell you mean otherwise you better ask Boris who is now the Foreign Secretary and you better ask Michael Gove who is now in charge of environment and Defra because they are the cabinet ministers who made those promises about big NHS spending increases they can answer that I'm afraid I can't possibly answer that because I'm not in a position to deliver it all I can say is that we are in a far better position to spend our own money in our own country you're listening to Nigel Farage it's time for these it's 7:30 combustible

The moment Nigel Farage hangs up on The Observer's Carole Cadwalladr during LBC show

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I'll thing Liz is an hysterical witch hunt and I have to say it is having some success because it clearly is worrying something goodbye like listen I'm not interested in talking to Carol kill one of the Guardian who's been a whole series of extraordinary claims about me and of course of course Julian Assange when I was purely doing that for LBC I've got time for one last quick caller

Brexit breakdown: affluence, decay and fury in the Tory heartlands | Anywhere but Westminster

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There’s a row going on, down near Slough – between a remainer Tory MP and the hardcore local leavers who claim he’s a “traitor”. John Harris and John …

Brexit – James O'Brien Believers Leavers Remainers

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Brexit – James O’Brien Believers Leavers Remainers

James talks about those who believed in good faith, bad faith and in between.

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who are you going to trust the people who have lied to you all made terrible mistakes because it's not fair to portray them all as dishonest all the people who've turned out much to their own horror to be right that's the question you have people who didn't understand what the single market was who didn't understand what the customs union was who didn't understand what the Four Freedoms were who didn't understand the importance and the relevance of the British border in Ireland who didn't understand just-in-time supply chains who didn't understand why the Japanese car companies were warning that they would have to leave in the event of no deal or in the event of continuing uncertainty the people who poopoo what the National Farmers Union have to say the people who poopoo what the CBI have to say the people who poopoo what the Bank of England has to say the people who poopoo what the Office of Budget Responsibility has to say the people who poopoo the Treasury's own forecasts on what will happen in the event of the various different breaks is so you've got all of that those people there who've been wrong about everything a claiming that they understand what WTO terms means and that all the people who've been right about everything don't have a Scooby Doo what WTO terms means and that really is where I am this morning in a state of I don't know what you'd call them quite what you'd call it or not it's a it's an almost zine like befuddlement it's a kind of almost rising above the mess and looking down and trying to unravel it because I honestly think that a significant swath of the population will continue to trust the people who have been shown to be wrong rather than now finally turned to the people who've been shown to be right looks like brexit is going to become the greatest Khan in British history i Titanic of a mess but why the poor were suffering in the Titanic on the in third-class the poor are going to suffer under this type of Titanic brexit mess and sadly the captain is not going to go down with the ship the captains of brexit are sitting comfortably on the key side waving the ship as it sails off towards the icebergs and the sad thing is that even those who are on board the ship are not willing to turn the ship around and avoid the iceberg they prefer to hit the iceberg knowing that the ship is going to sink knowing that well you know it was our decision to hit the iceberg it would be undemocratic or it would be against the will of the the sailors or the people on board the ship to turn the iceberg to save ourselves it's better we continue to hit the iceberg but no but don't worry the people who are sitting on the key side will still be okay even if the rest of us sink to the bottom of the ocean

Brexit – Cockney Caller's Hilarious Brexit Advice 🤣

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An East London cockney man calls a radio station to give advice on Brexit.

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I'll tell you what it achieved I'll tell you what Nick and this woman's nose ain't getting bigger fighters I I do not know she's gonna need a wheelbarrow for a route as soon and that's a Stang else between her and Colby we've been going at Burton's and getting yourself a new bit of clubber they are the most devious couple of people I've ever seen in my life and you've seen some devious people down there in Whitechapel I mean I'm one of them I'm copy classes a bit Davis but I don't go telling man 17 for poor million people that they were there when it load of idiots I mean I think we come and panic la la la in these people denied I mean what's up of them so they actually wake up every time we swallow this lot all these puppies I said at least absolutely disgusting what's going on here how do they not understand how frustrated they're making their country I mean if that mark or mean what that why don't you send up an artist to go out that's how and I say you're special about Aven on to this just coming out last night bad LGBT what what what would you say if mrs. Mae were listening what would you say to her I'll tell you what I'll tell you first thing I do I take they're a nice cup of chase yeah Dennis ain't no listen to me my little laugh you are barking up the wrong tree and if you honestly believe you're going to be staying in this position for the report but another year you keep saying six months three months you are kidding yourself and sealers to say to you Frankie Frankie I've worker what do I need to do Frankie lastly what would you say to her get out of this game you're no good at it get out of it like your old man go to Borneo go wherever you've got a go but get out of it because you're useless and what would what should Britain do as regards bricks it breaks it get old in a queen gal governor old man and tell him to stop playing dodge and bayonet Margate with motors and get us out get the Queen involved get Marco to stop spinning all that dough on these big these big yoga studios where he's doing Pilar ice how many centuries Bangor volt I love to this call it is fantastic you know the brexit has been such a depressing really depressing toxic political issue that has put the British people the British public against each other politicians against each other so it's nice when you have a bit of humor from this guy he's a London a true Londoner a cockney I love the accent um so it's nice that there's you know something like this still exists you have I love that sorry I loved how he commented on the queen of England's husband Prince Philip doing spending time on his cars after he had an accident where he's I dunno 90 years old and he shouldn't be driving or something like that so while this isn't deeply related to brexit it's nice that there's a bit of humour from time to time brexit has been such a depressing depressing situation you know from you the use of the military to insulin shortages to stockpiling of food to tailbacks at dover it's nice to have a bit of humor from time to time so thanks thanks to this caller whoever he is

The Truth About Brexit | UK's EU Referendum

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On June 23rd, 2016, the United Kingdom determines if it will leave the European Union to re-embrace national sovereignty.

While there are economic scare stories, concerns about international trade complications and fears about the United Kingdom becoming isolated on a world stage – make no mistake that upcoming EU Referendum vote is truly now about Immigration and the European Migrant Crisis.


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hi everybody this is stefan molyneux from freedomain radio I hope you're doing well June 23rd 2016 the United Kingdom which is England Scotland Northern Ireland and Wales will vote to determine if it stays within the European Union or leaves to re-embrace national sovereignty now there's a lot of talk about the financial costs and renegotiation of trade contracts or treaties and the movement of goods and services that is completely irrelevant and immaterial this is not about pounds and pennies this is not about dollars and cents this is about culture history a way of life and the continuation of a multi century civilization it is fundamentally about one thing and one thing only and that is immigration oh no he said the word immigration well let's deal with the bear in the room right up front when I talk about immigration people gonna say racism oh he doesn't want brown people coming to the United Kingdom What nonsense there's nothing to do with race culture and race are not the same thing let me give you an example Japan has Japanese people in it and China has Chinese people in it are they the same race yeah pretty much however if all the Japanese people go to China and all the Chinese people go to Japan Japan is now Chinese and China is now Japanese it's not about race it's about culture and history and a way of life look England is one of the great places in the world to live the United Kingdom as a whole one of the great places in the world to live however England in particular is about the most overpopulated major country in the European Union it is crowd it will get to just how crowded in a minute or two and there's a particular way of life that is evolved that people like and they want to come to they want to come to the United Kingdom because it is the United Kingdom however if twelve billion people from some other culture come to the United Kingdom it won't be the United Kingdom anymore so that which draws them in will be destroyed and this is why immigration is wonderful immigration needs a pause for people to acclimate to the new environment a couple of generations you know bring a bunch of people in and then let things settle a little bit so that they can acclimatize to the British Way of life that's how civilized and sustainable immigration works wave after wave after wave crashing and crashing and creating welfare moated ghettos this is not how immigration works this is how immigration swamps destroys fragments the culture of a country and then there is no country and what people came to enjoy no longer exists it's like everybody you can have a thousand people on a boat you just can't have thousand people on one side of the boat because then it tips over you gotta spread things out so that's really really important we're gonna talk about what's happened with immigration in the United Kingdom over the past 10 or 15 years what costs are involved and what is about to come so thank you let's dive straight into the data shall we now here we'll put the sources roll this below we're indebted to migration watch UK dot org let's look at the official figures is what the government admits to this is total immigration to the United Kingdom per year this is not cumulative this is every single year from 1996 so you can see 1990 616 thousand hundred and seven thousand not going to read all these out a peak of three hundred and seventy five thousand people in 2004 there aren't roads enough there are houses enough there's not sewage enough there's not schools enough there's not healthcare enough for this giant wave of people there's not language facilities and language education and language resources enough for this wave of people and a little bit of a dip down 2012 239,000 then by 2015 three hundred and sixty three thousand people this is the– and you will estimate it emigration do they know well this is estimated the UK has a population about sixty 4.1 million people and immigration since 1996 makes up about a 2.5% of the current population now with numbers like that it does not take long for existing cultural values and ways of life to be diluted pushed out and supplanted it is astonishing how many people who are native to London have left London over the past few years because immigrants tend to concentrate in the cities so this said we're going to have a look at European Union immigration versus non EU immigration estimated this is in the yellow estimated european union to UK migration c starts off fairly low massive bulge a bit of a dip and now it's rocketing back up again non-european Union to UK migration is even higher and tris remained higher then EU migration since 1996 so about half of immigration in the UK currently comes from you EU countries and that is of course aided by free movement provisions among the European Member States now the important thing to remember is that when immigrants come into a country they require a lot of resources and those resources are paid for by taxes what that means is taxes on the native population generally go up which means the native population can have fewer children because they're paying all this money in taxes to support the immigrants so it's not like the UK plus immigration it's the UK plus immigration minus a bunch of UK children who otherwise would have been born to native people so this is really important it is a displacement of population immigration is not in addition now in the nineteenth century in America when there was no welfare state this was a different matter in about a third of those people who emigrated to the United States went back home because they didn't like it but if what you can get on welfare is vastly superior to an earned wage in your native country you're coming you're staying you're having lots of kids taxes go up which means native populations can have fewer children it is a displacement of a population it is not in addition to so this is estimated European Union immigration so pretty small right 1996 28k ninety nine eight thousand two thousand six thousand two thousand months seven thousand relatively small bomb 2003-2004 we go through the roof 2014 174 thousand people coming in estimated from the European Union and this is a snowball effect look if you have one drink kind of fun if you have five drinks kinda dizzy if you have ten drinks can to pass down if you have twenty drinks kind of dead now your body can process alcohol just not a huge amount all at the same time and the country is like that with regards to immigration now the reason why we have forced to care about immigration is because of the welfare state and because of public schools and because of old-age pensions and socialized health care and all the things that matter when other people move into the country I'd love to live in a world where I could care less who lives where but the reality is when people move to your country they are adding to your tax burden in general the degree to which they're doing it we will talk about in just a few minutes European Union migrants living in the United Kingdom in millions as of 2004 to 2014 well I'm not gonna do the horrifying xylophone scale up to hell but from 1.5 million to 3 million in 10 years 1.5 million additional European Union migrants living in United Kingdom in just 10 years now everyone is for some limit on immigration so let's not pretend that everyone would just love to open the doors to everyone on the planet because how many people if they have the choice would like to live in say London on welfare rather than say in Somalia or Ghana or wherever it's going to be everybody has to recognize some limitation on immigration so the question is where are you gonna put your limitation not whether there should be or not and again it's not racist to imagine such it has nothing to do with race fundamentally polish people are white but if everyone in Poland moved to the United Kingdom the United Kingdom would pretty much become Poland or a significant portion of it would be so it's got nothing to do with race it's all about culture if you have a child brought up in the British culture in the United Kingdom culture they will grow up with all those it's very difficult to transplant those values to other people who come in from others overseas there's no magic soil and people pass through the portal of the channel and bomb they have the magna carta and they have the Glorious Revolution and they have the Enlightenment and they have the Renaissance and they have you name it doesn't happen it has to slowly be worked into a human soul United Kingdom migration to the European Union because of course a lot of people come to the United Kingdom some people leave European Union to UK 3.3 million people UK to European Union only 1.2 million people now this data is from the United Nations now this contradicts the United Kingdom government preference for claiming only 2 million UK citizens live and work in the EU the 2 million figure was an over estimate from a single 2010 report where the researchers multiplied the actual figures by four to obtain their results why well they were provided with anecdotal claims regarded regarding a singular consular official so this is the greater facts this is 800 thousand or more estimated greater UK to European Union but these are the actual UN figures net outflow countries where are people moving to with regards to from the United Kingdom to the European Union well of course Majorca a lot of people are going to Spain and of course a lot of those people would be retiring and wishing to escape the clammy death grip of English All Seasons where summer comes I believe if memory serves on a Wednesday Spain hundred eighty thousand Cyprus ten thousand France nine thousand Luxembourg six thousand Finland has equal immigration and outflow net inflow countries this is from the European Union this is aggregate not per year so Slovenia 500 Denmark five thousand Belgium five thousand Croatia 5,500 Malta 8000 and we go up and up Estonia 17,000 Netherlands twenty-nine Czech Republic 37 Greece 54 ah we have only began the escalation Slovakia fifty-eight thousand Bulgaria 72,000 Hungary eighty thousand Latvia ninety-five thousand Portugal 114 thousand Italy 139,000 Lithuania 144 thousand Ireland 156 thousand Germany 194,000 Romania two hundred twenty six thousand hey remember I mentioned Poland and Poland eight hundred and forty eight thousand people coming in and yeah not a lot of British people want to go to Poland it's as true now as it was in 1939 so just think of this a lot of these people coming in raising the tax bills for the local population driving up the price of housing driving up the price of goods and services because there's a much greater demand and they don't speak a lot of them wouldn't speak this the language certainly not as well don't have the history don't have the same cultural background as people in England or in the United Kingdom so tax rates go up a lot of these people coming in means that fewer native UK people are born and the culture gets displaced the culture gets fragmented you can't make decisions you can't figure anything out you can't work with your neighbors multiculturalism destroys social trust in neighborhoods people stay home they watch TV they don't do things with their neighbours because it's too damn complicated don't know the culture on the history done religion don't know the language ah forget it I'll just stay home neighbourhoods decay they destroyed all of these stuff that I grew up with in London going out all day all night playing with all the kids in the neighborhood a lot of that is being fragmented destroyed disrupted boom it's gone and why and why if to think to yourself I understand why people want to come to the United Kingdom but you have to look in the mirror and say how does it benefit me how did aside from their Pied Piper dance of multiculturalism is our strength diversity is a strength I mean this is just statements nobody's ever proven that in fact a diversity has considerably and repeatedly been shown to be a considerable weakness and destruction of civic society and social society to look yourself in the mirror and say how does it benefit me how does it benefit me as someone who lives in the United Kingdom as somebody who whose history is in the United Kingdom how does it benefit me to have this giant laundry list of people coming in but and cultures different languages different religions different histories why how does it benefit me rather than having an equivalent number of people born who just raised here I get it benefits of politicians who the politicians well what if they done well they have underfunded the a welfare state they have underfunded pensions for old people so they want to bring in a bunch of taxpayers is that gonna work well we'll find out so I need to introduce you to something called national insurance numbers or Nino's and these are issued to of course to people who are living and working in the United Kingdom I also need to introduce you to EU 14 eu8 in EU – we'll keep it brief but it's important you 14 Austria Belgium Denmark Finland France Germany Greece Ireland Italy Luxembourg Netherlands Portugal Spain and Sweden yes that was all on one breath euh sometimes call to the a8 country's added in 2014 Czech Republic Estonia Hungary Latvia Lithuania Poland Slovakia and Slovenia does not include Cyprus and Malta he you too added in 2007 Romania and Bulgaria so to work legally in the UK a National Insurance number is required between 2004 and 2015 4.75 million National Insurance numbers were issued to EU Nationals in 2015 a record 630,000 Nino's were issued including two hundred nine thousand two Romanians and Bulgarians so there is a giant disparity between the number of Nino's issued and official estimates of emigration a part of this reason is because Nino's were issued to those who come to the UK for less than a year before returning home people coming for less than a year are not classified as long term migrants are included in official estimates of net migration however this does not explain all of the discrepancy in estimates between for both long term and short term immigrants between 1 and 12 months it's still total less than the number of Nino's recorded as being issued so Nino data is an actual record of the number issued while migration figures are an estimate based on survey data so this has led to let's say concerns that the official EU net migration figures could be an underestimate and that the actual figure may be even higher so here we can see this is a graph here National Insurance numbers issued and EU 8 EU 14 you – it's a I don't know sort of a Matisse sculpture in in profile but the numbers are all clustering up through the roof and are far higher than official estimates of emigration so this is important the government can't even tell you with any degree of accuracy how many people are coming into your country so this is some United Kingdom immigration versus National Insurance numbers or Nino's issued 2005 to 2015 this is EU 8 immigration to the United Kingdom EU 8 National Insurance numbers issued so the bottom line this yellow line that's the estimated immigration based on a bunch of surveys the top line is the actual number of National Insurance numbers issued and that's important because in 2050 in the government numbers claims 65,000 immigrants over a year stay not tall short term from EU 8 countries were in the United Kingdom it's only 65,000 immigrants but it issued two hundred and sixteen thousand Nino's for people from the EU eight countries so that's a lot that is a lot that is more than triple and heading in for quadruple so just when the government says well the immigration is this don't believe them immigration verses National Insurance numbers issued 2005 to 2013 so this is EU aid short and long term migration to the I Kingdom EU 8 National Insurance numbers issued so even after adding the short term migration under a year number as a gap of about 70,000 has existed each year each year between 2009 to 2013 short term migration data past 2013 is not yet available so even when we try to close the gap it doesn't work the estimates are off the number of immigrants this is important because they can't even tell you the truth they can't even estimate and of course the government could use this Nino data why don't they use this data why are they relying on surveys which is subjective and easily manipulated rather than relying on this data because it will shock you to know how many people are coming to live in England while it won't shock you if you're trying to buy a rent a house because that's what's driving up the demand at least one of the main things so this is immigration versus National Insurance numbers issued from EU two countries a Romania and Bulgaria so here you can see a u2 immigration to the United Kingdom is on the bottom here in the yellow and then there's Loch Ness monster a leap up that's going up in 2013 these are the official national insurance numbers issued it's truly shocking and truly astonishing now there are some caveats we'll put them in the notes below but this should be alarming to anybody who is concerned about the continuation of a culture that took many many centuries and the blood of countless millions to develop the freedoms the separation of church and state the free market you name it EU 14 short and long term migration to the United States vs EU 14 National Insurance numbers issued now if this doesn't underwhelm you with confidence in the government data I don't know what will this story is the reverse for the EU 14 countries until 2011 the number of Nino's issued was less than the estimated influx of long-term and short-term migrants for immigrants in other words who's in your country who knows doesn't matter just pay your damn taxes because politicians need to buy them some votes alright so now we're gonna switch to non-european Union immigration now this is of course people not coming from EU countries the birth rates for this group are high to put it mildly 1996 888 thousand and again this is all the government estimates so in 2004 265,000 and against not cumulative spur year 2015 191,000 non european union immigration what's wrong with having babies united kingdom have babies look they're gonna grow up speaking english they gonna grow up at the same culture with the same history the same values so much easier oh I know why because human beings are pretty slow to turn from babies into taxpayers right so if a lot of British people has not having babies well then the government isn't gonna have a lot of taxpayers for another 20 to 25 years but immigration gives the illusion of massive tax influx is in the here and now because you can just deficit finance all the spending on migrants and that's another reason why it's a challenge to have babies no I don't want to grow up in debt so non European Union migration to the United Kingdom population estimates so this is useless the United Nations data estimated does not subtract UK born individuals living in these countries from the population currently living in the United Kingdom so this is the population estimate from Turkey hundred thousand got a hundred and two thousand Somali 110,000 Hongkong almost hundred twenty thousand syn Bob way almost hundred thirty three thousand Australia hundred and thirty six thousand sri lanka hundred and thirty nine thousand philippines almost a hundred and forty thousand kenya hundred and fifty-one thousand all right so let's keep going shall we Jamaica hundred seventy two thousand China hundred and eighty two thousand USA two hundred and twelve thousand Nigeria 216,000 South Africa 218,000 Bangladesh 230 thousand Pakistan five hundred and forty thousand four hundred ninety-five and ding-ding-ding grab your vindaloo coming in at the top India seven hundred and seventy six thousand six hundred and three yeah that's right three-quarters of a million people that's a that's a lot and of course the people from Pakistan and India want to come to England because it's English because it's British because it's not Pakistan in India if they wanted Pakistan in India it's a whole lot easier to stay home they come to England they come to Great Britain they come to the United Kingdom because they want what's here if too many come it's gonna turn into Pakistan in India and then that whole trip has been to get the same crappy system as in Pakistan and India but with way worse weather don't let that happen people now whither goeth the United Kingdom well population projections by migration level so this white line at the bottom is no more migration hey how about you just make the beast with two backs and make some new people locally it seems like a pretty easy thing to do if it's capped at 105 thousand annually way below what seems to be happening at the moment then you get the yellow line so I'm you know this takes you from you know sixty five million right so you give them sixty five million to twenty thirty nine you're still under sixty eight million with 105 thousand annually you go from sixty-five million to almost 70 million at 185 thousand annually you're over 74 million and a two hundred and sixty-five thousand annually you're at almost 77 million people that's a lot more 12 million more you ever walk around London and say to yourself boy you know what this place could use more pigeons and just a few more people that would be great so it is madness now overall net migration including births to foreign-born parents has accounted for an estimated eighty five percent of the population growth in the United Kingdom since 2000 I just really want you to understand that net migration including births the foreign-born parents has accounted for eighty five percent of the population growth in the UK since 2000 that is a displacement of people now under the government's high migration estimate the population is projected to rise by about five hundred thousand people a year the equivalent to a new city the size of Liverpool every single year or eight million over the next 15 years over 90% of international migrants to the UK go to England England has a population density of over 410 people per square kilometer some stacks vertically England's population density is slightly lower than that of India and almost twice that of Germany and three and a half times that of France so it's already looking like frappe people stuffing themselves into a phone booth I don't know that's an old analogy I guess you can look it up so England is a ridiculously crowded and the vast majority of new people in England are either migrants or born to foreign-born parents so how about England gets a little me time how about the United Kingdom gets a little me time takes a little time races to trellis lets people acclimatize and keeps England and keeps the United Kingdom the way that it is evolved and allows it to evolve with all of the richness of new cultures but without the swampy of the original culture under the new cultures it's just the thought you get to vote I don't because I've been gone from England for more than 15 years I just looked it up tragic so what's it costing you what's all of this oh I really don't want to be called a racist what's it costing you pounds and pennies what's it costing you well from April 2014 to March 2015 migration watch UK calculated that immigrants in the United Kingdom from other European Economic Area countries cost 1.2 billion pounds annually or over 3 million pounds a day I don't know what's behind your couch cushions I can't quite seem to find that now European Economic Area immigrants they're costly this is net negative it's not well they cost but but there's all these benefits this is after the benefits in the cost of calculated they are draining your Treasury it's like attaching five lampreys to your jugular and going on a marathon jog jog hump ah but if you will look if I can divert your gaze to the right-hand side of the screen here we have non European Economic Area immigrants ah you see that number seems to be just a little bit higher so immigrants from outside the European Economic Area cost fifteen point six billion pounds annually or almost 43 million pounds every single day so overall immigration is costing native to UK residents nearly 17 billion dollars annually see here's the thing people are they coming for the money or because they love British values you don't know because you're paying them so much it's like paying someone to be your date does she love me you don't know because you're paying her to be your date don't prostitute yourself Great Britain you've worth more than that you're better than that please stop bribing people to come to your country there's enough of value there that the people who love you will find you at so immigrants contributed eighty nine point seven billion pounds in taxes but received 106 point seven billion dollars in public spending during 2014 to 2015 because the taxpayers included 20 billion paid in working-aged benefits ah but there's more you see these are just some of the hard costs is a lot more cost we haven't cost of housing cost of cars cost of congestion cost of traffic jams lowered quality of education for all the children because you got to take into account six billion different languages religions and cultures no values can be taught in school because whatever you teach someone's going to offend someone else it wasn't the case when I went to school when I went to school to boarding school in England we work and taught perhaps a little strictly one set of values we were able to actually have cultural values because we weren't heavily deluded with incompatible opposing hysterical highly offend highly offended cultures there are people who've paid into the system that people they pay taxes their whole lives they want health care they want retirement benefits and they are not gonna get some of them because the money's all being devoted to immigrants and this is just now future costs I go through the roof annual cost of immigration so total government revenue fiscal year 2015 to 2016 was projected to be 673 billion pounds total expenditures 742 billion pounds total deficit 69 billion pounds he already can't afford the society that you have can't afford the immigrants that you have do you want more come on people it's not that complicated you don't even need to take your shoes off to do this math you can't afford it you can't afford it can't afford it chairmen of migration watch you K Lord green of Darrington quote this report shows an EU migration taken as a whole is not making the positive fiscal contribution that is so often been claimed furthermore it is adding to the rapidly increasing pressures on housing public services it also contributes to our population increase of half a million every year roughly a city the size of Liverpool without the Beatles you keep immigration spokesman Steven Wolfe quote ultimately the British taxpayer will be forced to pick up the bill for a reckless migration policy as a member of the EU this research shows that we have a ticking time-bomb of costs that our nation will not be able to cope with as our population grows X cabinet minister Ian Duncan Smith quote we know that uncontrolled migration is placing a huge strain on the NHS national health system schools and other public services that's a challenge for councils to cater to as well as a cost to families who struggle to gain fair access to the services that their taxes paid for not only that uncontrolled migration also hits people's pockets because it puts downward pressure on wages as well as increasing competition for jobs now this report lays bare the wider financial cost to taxpayers which runs into the billions every year including 1.2 billion from European immigration alone it's time to take back control of our borders and implement a fairer immigration policy one that works for the UK what's in it for you it is okay to ask that question in fact it is morally required to ask that question because all the benefits living in the United Kingdom they're not yours to give away you didn't earn them you inherited them from your forefathers they're not yours to give away you have no right to give them away just to be avoid calling being called slightly mean words who cares now the migrant crisis is a thing and it's not an inconsequential thing I've spoken a lot about it I would just touch on it briefly here so far a little over 1,100 Syrian refugees have been resettled in the UK current commissioned commitments to resettle over 20,000 the House of Commons Home Affairs Committee has released a study projecting the cost of resettling these 20,000 refugees to be 589 million pounds or almost 30 thousand pounds per refugee over five years he they're probably gonna live a little longer than five years Prime Minister David Cameron quote the first 12 months of each refugees resettlement costs under the Syrian vulnerable persons resettlement scheme will be funded using official development assistance at the spending review the government committed 129 million pounds to assist with local authority costs over the years two to five of the scheme the total estimated cost of the scheme in each of the next five years is 99 million pounds in 2016 to 2017 129 million in 2017 to 2018 149 million 2018 to 2019 and 83 million in 2020 to 2021 now of course these are future government estimates of costs if you're over the age of say 12 well I think I don't know who need to tell you much about how much seriousness to give future estimates of government costs you can't you keep migration spokesman Steven wolf MEP quote I'm speechless seriously this number can't be right the government is projecting over 100 million pounds a year of a4 years of this Parliament a minimum 25 thousand pounds net per refugee on present arrivals it's insane as the Home Office refuses to provide regular updates on the numbers being resettled or where they are being placed there is an unacceptable lack of transparency in the use of these significant funds the office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees reported that as of November 3rd 2015 there were four point two nine million registered Syrian refugees most Syrian refugees were currently located in Jordan Lebanon and Turkey which are neighboring countries of course of Syria do you care about the Syrian refugees I do do you really want to help them rather than just morally posture and pretend to be nice well the United states-based Center for Immigration Studies released a report showing that for what it costs to resettle of one middle-eastern refugee in the United States about 12 refugees can be helped in the Middle East so don't think of the one you are helping think of the 12 you're not helping because why because you want refugees to come where the climate is different by the religion is different where the culture is different where the language is different or the hat is different go on ad infinitum come on so using the same calculation the cost of helping one Syrian refugee come to the United Kingdom well you could assist 3.6 Syrian refugees in the Middle East for the 589 million pounds pledged to resettle 20,000 refugees in the UK you could resettle not 20,000 but instead 360 1793 in the Middle East for the calendar year it's not about helping the refugees it's about photo ops it's I mean forget it if you want to help the refugees help them in the Middle East bringing them to the West is culturally disastrous potentially it is hugely problematic almost for certain and it doesn't actually help any of the refugees who are left behind and you could have far more by helping them resettle in the Middle East then bringing them into the West anybody who tells you otherwise is a moral poser who should be immediately ejected from any sane conversation now what's coming it's not about what's past what's fastest faster what is coming well as it approached creditor deadlines in the past Greece remember Greece little problem with its finances great Olympics though Greece has made threats on what would happen if the European Union and the International Monetary Fund refused to bail out their financially destitute country again Greece is on the border of Turkey which is currently hosting approximately three million refugees Greek Defense Minister panos kammenos quote if they deal a blow to Greece then they should know that the migrants will get papers to go to Berlin if Europe leaves us in the crisis we will flood it with migrants and it will be even worse for Berlin if in that wave of millions of economic migrants there will be some jihadists of the Islamic state – if they strike us we will strike them we will give to migrants from everywhere the documents they need to travel in the Schengen area so that the human wave who could go straight to Berlin now I know expert but I'm not sure that these people are a huge net addition to a country if they're being threatened as a form of bio weapon against Europe see that's not really where you want to go Europe can pick its refugees you can have a point system like like Australia or Canada you could get the best of the best he's basically using them as bio weapons against Europe to extract money from the European Central Bank it's miss the club you want to be part of this makes the Mafia look like Boy Scouts Greek Foreign Minister Niko's Clausius if Greece was forced out of the euro quote there will be tens of millions of immigrants and thousands of jihadists now the next Greek creditor deadline May 24 2016 while Greece threatens the European Union with massive amounts of turkeys refugees negotiations are quickly leading to allow turkey into the European Union are you kidding me turkey massive majority Muslim country Islam and Europe has had a challenging history I've got a presentation called the truth about the Crusades if you'd like to know a little bit about what's been going on but they're a bunch of requirements for Turkey to get into the EU and Turkey is saying well we'll get to what Turkey saying in the moment but let's just go to this the study has been done which said that twelve point six million Turks say they will come to the United Kingdom once the EU deal is signed let me back that one up run that past you again because you're gonna be voting soon once the EU deal is signed twelve point six million Turks say they'll come to the UK a lot of them unemployed a lot of them students I don't know that they'll paying a huge amount of taxes now if the United Kingdom does not leave the European Union there's pretty much absolutely nothing that can be done to stop twelve point six million Turks mostly Muslims coming into the United Kingdom for example you know just by the by the crime rate in Turkey way higher than that of the United Kingdom the murder rate in Turkey four times that of Britain so do you like staying home do you miss bars on the window I mean do you like staying home a lot do you like jumping every time a cat walks down the alley of course some people believe if you allow Turkey into the European Union is strong ally and the fight against terrorism in the region blahdy blahdy blah however of course people pouring in of questionable allegiance to various groups know how is this even a question now European Commission first vice-president seats the first one because you need lots of layers of bureaucracy in order to have a free society first price president France Timmerman said quote Turkey has made impressive progress particular in recent weeks on meeting the benchmarks of its visa liberalisation roadmap this is why we are putting a proposal on the table which opens the way for the European Parliament and the member states to decide to lift visa requirements once the benchmarks have been met the European Union and the Turkish government reached a deal March 18th 2016 where all migrants who attempt to enter Europe via via the Aegean Sea including Syrians fleeing war will be sent back to Turkey and accepted so turkey is holding for the moment the refugees the migrants I mean they're not all leave fleeing war and they're being paid very handsomely for this and it is given the menorahs leverage under the agreement turkey received six billion euros because remember pretty much every country in the EU running a massive surplus so they can afford all this stuff right right right turkey received six billion euros assurances of a fast-track to joining the EU and a conditional promise of visa-free travel for its citizens to Europe by the end of June 2016 June June yeah that's the same month you get to vote on the brexit huh makes you think doesn't it EU commissioner for migration Home Affairs and citizenship dimitra's Ephraim appleís quote the Turkish authorities have made remarkable progress since the 18th March GU Turkey summit and we trust Turkey is committing to delivering on all fronts as soon as possible the Commission has decided to put forward a proposal to transfer turkey to the list of fees of free countries of course the Commission will continue to monitor the continuous fulfilling of these criteria yeah of course it will you keep leader Nigel Farage quote this is a huge error of judgment by the European Commission turkey moves a step closer to EU membership and the British electorate move a large step closer to brexit the chaos from the beaches of Greece has evidently moved to the corridors of Brussels the EU has rolled over to the blackmail from Turkey president Erdogan turkey is a country with a terrible human rights record a accused of helping Isis and mistreating minorities it is too big too poor and too different from us and I certainly do not want the UK to be in a political union with Turkey in Turkey ninety seven point eight percent of the population identifies as Muslim and two percent has non-religious a recent Pew poll found that in Turkey thirteen percent believe that government law should strictly follow the teachings of the Quran 37% said laws should follow the values and principles of Islam but not strictly follow and only 36 percent supported the separation of church and state so in Europe I don't know 50 million a hundred million people died during the Protestant fragmentation wars post the breakup of Christendom after Martin Luther nailed his 99 theses to the church door in Wittenberg 50 hundred million people maybe more died to separate the church and state I don't believe in an afterlife but if I did I think they'd come back from the dead and choke you all in your sleep if you hand that victory away you keep migration spokesman Steve Steven wolf MEP on Europe all recently searching for terrorists increase migrant camps quote this action itself is an acknowledgment that Europe is vulnerable to potential terrorists using the migrant trail to enter Europe if it wasn't for the –use free movement of people across Europe this deployment would not have been necessary the Schengen policy which is a foundation of the EU political project has made Europe less secure and left the continent exposed to terrorism security is a central part to the UK brexit debate proper border controls are essential to any security policy only by leaving the EU can we ensure our protection from a borderless Europe you Kipp defence spokesman Mike hokum quote we have heard from both Europe Holland Frontex as well as the National Crime Agency here in the UK that it is open borders and the migrant crisis which has increased the terror risk to the whole of the EU including the UK you kept leader Nigel Farage quote we have an open door to 500 million people across 27 other countries of the European Union and we see net migration now regularly running at over 300,000 every year far higher than the government's target of migration in the tens of thousands with turkey pushing and in fact being encouraged by this government to become a member of the EU the current levels of immigration could go even higher if we vote to remain on June 23rd we can never control our borders but voted to leave will give us back that control this is the most crucial issue of the referendum and it is vital that the leave campaign makes this argument we will have all the economic debates and they are very important but what will win or lose this referendum will be the immigration argument of that I'm absolutely convinced oh and by the way Turkey is threatening to loose the migrants on Europe if Europe doesn't give it visa-free travel all across Europe wherever they want to go including your house so that's just something who you're thinking of getting in bed Oh give us fees if we travel nice little continent you got there Bureau shame is something happened to it oh oh do you hear that I think some of the migrants are getting loose Oh be a real shame if they all got loose and we gave them all boats to come across to Europe good luck with all of that it's a dangerous world people there's a reason you have a wall around your house all right pick up May Day yeah pretty good case but with regards to immigration the government is no idea who's coming into the country they haven't clue a clue when you have a large population from a particular group in your society say Pakistanis when you have a large population of Pakistanis it means more Pakistanis want to come to the United Kingdom because they're already lots of Pakistanis there they go contacts they don't want to go to Poland we're looking at how many Pakistani throw in Poland probably not a lot so of course this is a snowball effect the more you get the more you're gonna get the more you get the more you're gonna get there's a lot wrong with the European Union it's this big giant layer of socialism that like all other government programs produces the exact opposite of what it claims all we're gonna be all about security and it's gonna be free-trade nonsense it has made Europe far less secure it has made Europe baby by taking away local currency it has given it's taken away from countries the ability to devalue their currency if they have overspent and this is one of the reasons why it is crippled you know Greece got to borrow at the rates of Germany and spent like crazy and things kind of went haywire from there so it's a giant massive mess of a problem who's gonna care about you more some local politician who looks you in the eye who grew up around you or some guy in Brussels who doesn't even speak English come on people this is not that hard to figure out it's a layer of communism socialism / fascism that is a complete mess and disaster and is dissolving the historical sustainability of the entire European civilization it is corrupt there are a massive amounts of regulations that even if you don't trade with Europe you still have to obey it's insane you have to retain as a country the ability to decide for yourself the courage that the United Kingdom might have with regards to the brexit with regards to voting to get out of this which is like getting onto a lifeboat early on in the movie Titanic or the actual Titanic you know only with a guy spinning down and dinging is for it off the propeller at the end for God's sakes do it now if England leaves this might be someone getting out it might inspire other countries to reevaluate their addiction to this incredibly bureaucratic socialistic nightmare of the EU it might cause a chain reaction of escape and cause the actual potential survival of European civilization I kind of like European civilization I was born in Southern Ireland I grew up in London England I have visited most play a lot of places in the continent I love Europe I'd love to come back but you all got to get it through your heads that the EU is like the Soviet Union it's not going to work it is a massive so this disaster it needs to be stopped before it is too late there is no magic soil there's no magic pixie dust in the air in England that turns everyone into people who are like the native British it's not there it's not there it takes time to integrate it takes time for people to come to your country and integrate it's not that hard to figure out imagine if you moved to Beijing China how long would it take for you to feel exactly like the people who grew up in Beijing China you probably never would your kids a little bit more their kids a little bit more after a couple of generations maybe everything's hunky-dory but you need to figure that out you can't just keep piling more and more people in and just cross your fingers and hope it's gonna work it's going to do the opposite of working just as all government programs do government immigration right now is a government program it is a disaster it's not a disaster like it's inconvenient it's not a disaster like well there's an odd smells of cooking in the hallway it's a disaster like the entire Western experiment might go down the tubes the entire history civilization and culture of the earth all the way back to ancient Greece ancient Rome multi millennia of development of freedom liberty independence rights for women separation of church and state supreme archit a dedication to science philosophy reason objectivity all might crumble and fall in a dissolute mess of warring perspectives it is time to stop this mad experiment raise the drawbridge and let the people who came to Britain because it is Britain enjoy what they traveled and work so hard to arrive at to live in and to achieve you cannot hand away the fruits heart one heart fought bled and died for by your ancestors the fruits of Liberty you cannot hand them away because you're afraid of being called bad words save yourselves and through that you may save Western civilization itself you you

Gerrard Batten @ The UKIP North East meeting 4th of March 2019

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Gerrard Batten @ The UKIP North East meeting 4th of March 2019

but instead of the let's ski charities need any introduction he's Japanese the night of the white charger a bit of a push to shot to the rescue you'd best be the prominent political oblivion 500 is it a marvelous job not made did you could have a big football thank you very much commissioner great job tear innovating and we've had some excellent speakers so far we refer back to some of the things that they've said thank you very much to the people who organized this meeting and every beach my practice is to get more people I must be doing something wrong I spoke quite a few of these in the north of England now I've been all around the country by time but recently we've been to Wigan and some now we hear and we get a very good response and of course you are in a neighbor area there are seven seats here they're all held by labor in needs and the labor market has betrayed of course that's the story in The Guardian if there's only one fact in that story and that fact is that members that's what they were about otherwise they would be bothering I don't remember them attacking Henry ball for you when your political opponents attack you you know you are doing something right and of course they are a political opponent across the media now is not impartial neither the broadcast media and the press has never been enforced but now the forecast me that is the impartial or fair eye and I get attacked from both sides because recently you may have seen me don't email did a bit of a hit job oddly squiggly find anything but they went all the way up to about 200 miles north of Manila in the Philippines they sent a reporter and an assistant to eat corrugated my wife's family to try and find out something about us that they thought in their revolting newspaper well lately who find anything it was all quite boring night back to my brother-in-law though I haven't seen for about twenty years they couldn't find anything interesting to write except the beautiful political attacks so I get it from the right-wing press who support the Tory party and I'm getting him from the left-wing press the Guardian for support the Labour Party there is nothing you can newspaper anymore I'm afraid the Daily Express no longer supports this is deport out by Trinity Mirror and they although they may sell product they talk about Bretting etc they don't really believe it anymore and that's certainly not going to give you you kid any housework so that's the difficult situation wary what a lot of them talk about tonight I want to say something about where we are about country where we are and where you get these and where it is going so I'll show you what we can tell you what's going on in brexit about well lately I do probably know it's not because I'm psychic or anything but before we had the referenda back in 2014 the referendum was promised by beta amyloid look like they might be a referendum he did promise on I think this early 2014 because of the usability of rapport and I thought we need let's write another book laying out how we can leave the European Union at the legal basis and the practical basis and let's say what will happen is very recommended and believe side.we and I said it will be delayed it will be impeded and they will try to overturn well they certainly delayed in they certainly impeded and we're now in the final phase of the overturning part where maintain has not to deliberate at all what did they do well the first few months they didn't do anything it was only the following March from the previous June but they actually sent the minister of anyway but it wasn't something before they actually did it and they could have done it with an email the day after the referendum but off David Davis when told the EU that we were going to leave and it took months and months before anything happened at all and as you are well aware who the first practice equity to resign in fact Dominic Rama's I've lost count of how many open with a resigned if you can remember why they sign of course there is with each other and there's no reason to continue on the 90 percent of you just aren't and I asked that question every not going to be when I'm getting the same response but I think that's part of the process I think we just think want the whole thing to go away and that is what they're trying to so was mrs. Mays we're all agreement providing for well we still retain a lot of 1939 billion and more hidden costs we still have to obey EU law we will still have the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the European Union certainly for a few years we can't enter into any independent trade policy and if the EU agrees trade agreements with other countries we will be obliged to lower our tariffs to those countries if that's what it says in that agreement but those countries are under no obligation to lower their tax to us so only mrs. mine really could negotiate we'd all agree which is actually worse in the in the we have to give equal rights to everything that was and their children certainly their children I say to myself you know chance to make a point for about 60 seconds I said do you realize that the oldest person in Europe recently died in a certain age 170 so if we leave on a certain day and a European citizen whose leader has had a child and that child needs to be a hundred years old we could go on to him benefits in giving equal rights for that person for 100 years that is absolute nonsense and I say actually you know if we have reciprocal rights which actually I'm not gay I think it's one of those things we've done dude what are you actually getting anyone that comes to this country from media gets the use of the housing system the benefit system the magical the public services and all the things that we enjoy what do you get if you don't get a benefit because they don't have them most countries in Europe could not have a free health services you have to pay health insurance or pay as we know in some places where it's all going very wrong people okay so they've got guarantee right now if we use military ambitions and its plans to have its own arm and next time we do a talk we need to get somebody from the military to the rural veterans to come and talk to know about this in detail and explain exactly how its work something called cooperation agreement where our armed forces are going to be bound for the key US Armed Forces and they do intend to have their own arm and this right back to when I first got abilities in the most effective treatment european it says common foreign and security policy with a common defense well what you call a common defense i call that animal wouldn't you and that's what they thought except not in public and non-premium and not until recently because you wasn't it until after the referendum when you have mr. Joker and this is vertical so he must have a European army and mrs. maylie is totally on side for that whatever she may say you remember when she made a speech in Florence I think that's January before last when she said that she had a new security training which would incorporate armed forces and all the listen criminal justice measures but we already have which are totally evil community perspective destroy and undermine basic principles of freedom in our country under our law so that's where we are there with this servant all of you what's actually going to happen well next week if it doesn't happen soon if it doesn't get delayed again we're supposed to have three votes in our this is May's deal that's probably going to get defeated there will be a vote on leading with no video and that'll probably get the PT and then they'll be over to extend our official which is likely to succeed the other 27 members of the European Council countries of the EU are going to vote to agree that that is extended they extend article 50 and then what are they going to do well Parliament has rejected mrs. mace with ovary but why did they reject it because it was so bad no they rejected me because it wasn't bad enough because a majority of our parliamentarians don't want to leave the Europe so that's what that means and they can which I'm standing and do whatever prophesy in my poor hand which is you get to the next general election and then you would have both of the old parties to touring and later saying well you know that this is what I fear of what this whole charade has been about is if they can possibly stop us leaving or if not we leave in name only they prepare the way for taking us back Eve very easily because if you look at the process what they've ended up with is what other countries have when they're trying to join the European League they gradually accept more and more power from the community and their agreements until they're ready to actually formally join and that is what I fear is going to happen but it would never be too late to leave if we have had a patriotic prime minister actually open government in power on the 24th of June 2016 this is how and they know this as well as I do it's not rocket science you would have revealed the 1972 European communities act as a first step in the process we wouldn't have left under our law not there though I met the Prime Minister over there and I said it would have gone through the next day and said don't worry it won't be chaos because all of the olive oil EU derived oil remains in place it has to because it's all been incorporated as acts of parliament or regulations and there's something like 1911 troops alone if you ended up every job typically comes to about 170 or thousand bits of legislation and then I got back a long time ago from the European Parliament library so it's even bigger now than it was you can't deal that all in five minutes or two years so what would you do you'd say we are going to start with leaving an amazing that legislation in accordance with our priorities and our time scale and we'll take off with the big one trailer you can have continued tariff free trade interns or you can WTO you've got a week to think about it we'll come back and let us know what you're going to do because it's their decision anyway it's not ours they have to agree or not agree and what are they going to do if you throw the ball before the German the harmonious approach of wine growers etc they're all going to be saying we need to continue on the same terms and the commission would be forced to actually accept that deal which would actually be much better for them than it was for us but we were brought into that agreement saying that we are now free mushiya our own trade agreements with the rest of the world if we want to and you don't need trade agreements in order to train with people these countries are trade together together and trade agreement agreements are an option and we don't always need them sometimes it's better not happen to depending on the terms that the other country wants the key to their trade because most of the tariffs no financial carrots are quite low the WTO see into that during the course of the last 40 years what you have to be aware of now is the non-tariff barriers to trade and things that other countries might have to ask you to sign up to for example there's always controversy about the Americans with hormones that people don't want to eat well that's a fair point and that is something that you have to take a nice pumped into the retrained moon crater and that's enough for Singapore recently in the coffee bar each tray spray and they had a coffee with it when I said by the way I said what is your attitude to the Train if we are always on the dories and labor totally sold out for some reason best time to themselves they want to be wrong and governed by a foreign power under Authority and that is to European Union and the big mystery this is commenting because me and Eva humming had one thing in common over the last 40 years and that was opposition to membership and these arguments would be the same as it is basically which is that it's undemocratic is anti-democratic and it damages and you can see videos of him saying this on youtube i'm sure he learned exactly those points and he was absolutely ruined but now he's changed his tune and the reason he's changed into is because he now run as a party where it's got about 500,000 members or followers i believe and half of them want to stay any and he has been worried about totally but I wonder if there's on a sophisticated Marxist Leninist been violently so that if he gets eaten power later – I actually really nationalize the utilities which others about a deity would afford it that's another story but in turn man said we can't do is he that clever is he doing now certainly doesn't want to take the risk because the last 100 bucks is terribly important in power but to all intents and purposes as far as we know but they're all going to sign up to whatever atrocious field Lisa's body comes back with or say it isn't that righteous enough and you need to go back next on the even worse until we not left the European Union at all and then we either don't leave or we leave for a while when they go back in 46 years of membership of the European Union has rotted for soul of the political class in this country it's been a cancer at the heart of our politics because is founded on an irreconcilable problem do you want to be governed by your own elective politicians and government under your own laws your own or do you want to transfer somewhere else can be governed by somebody else in a foreign capital and that is the problem that is why we had 40 or years of dissent in politics it's why we ended up with a referendum and the British people answered that question when Parliament was formed after the Magna Carta in 1215 it was described as a common Council of the realm now the first part of this didn't make Pompey tilt back to our twenties the first proper Parliament with the comments of Lords was a 1265 and what were they there for they were there to represent everybody now of course it wasn't them accredit nobody's pretended it was but they will call the periodically by the king because he needed to know the tenor of public opinion what could he do lately for wasn't gonna have a rebellion that's why Harley was fault in the first place and of course it's achieve power that had talked to himself over the years the pain was the power to control taxation erasing and not the spending of money but you couldn't raise money without the consent of parliament and as I say it was called a common council to the realm well we had this political dissent anyway for all of these years from our membership back until 2016 amongst the political parties and they could never resolve it and that's why my party came into existence is why we did so well over the years meanwhile we posted referendum through our electoral thread so what did they do to resolve the problem what David Cameron said we will not ask exactly whose body did we will ask the Common Council of the realm and that's the people and the people decided by a majority of voters that they wanted to leave and then the ruling elites a romance that we're not going to do it we can't tell them outright we've just got to pretend we're going to do it and they're not doing if they betrayed the result of the referendum then we will enter into political civil war that will go on for decades back in 1642 a sibling was a real civil war started because of parliament and Keeney one in opposition the key with himself in opposition to plan what will happen if they betray the referendum is the Parliament will put itself in opposition to the people we could resolve that problem if we had a fair voting system but we don't we have first-past-the-post system where because like they don't what they updated is like a Tory or everybody know what they hate least rather than actually well and that's why we ended up with the game of musical chairs in Parliament way you've got one see two layers and periodically they change positions and this is white one of the k-50 policies going forward is to introduce a more fair a voting system and some form of proportional representation few years ago in Parliament i sat in a group with a chap called Mattie of saline I have a fair voting system in Italy so I'll lady stop being in a company became a name became a minister and now he has been able to take action but is cut illegal immigration into Italy by 98% I think what we could do in this country if we had a play a voting system when we could but then when we got there no employees of people who would actually want to do something and what we got this is why things are the way we are what we've got is a kind of unholy alliance between international big business and international corporations and the far left and their retraced converge for a while anyway they've got this one centralized always from a supranational level you can give them the things they want big business wants to be able to lobby you you get the kind of laws but it once that will help them put their smaller competitors out of business the ideological left will open forward as they want less fundamental immigration because they don't believe in the nation-state may want to destroy national loyalty national identity and the this disposed uncontrolled integration over boards because they want cheap labor they want a never-ending supply of cheap labor so that at the moment their interests coincide and compensate each other but I don't think that's going to go on forever and this is probably the single issue that made people realize that we know every detail about political destiny was the effect of mass immigration and this is why you're seeing so much unrest across Europe to the house in France and other countries for two reasons I think especially in France they are overtaxed and they have too much immigration and you've seen now they've been out on the streets you wanna see is very much they each other for my city bylaws but they'd be now every weekend not just in Paris but up and down France in towns villages for the last 18 weeks the Yellow Jackets passed on know if you think you've seen something bad so myself anyone get because back in December again you want to see this hopper baby say or scar TV back mrs. may signed up to something called the UN Global Compact on managed to basically essentially live they are going to make things much easier for migrants become they are going to make it much more difficult to send illegal migrants of fact where they came from and they are going to criminalize dissent through so-called hate speech laws of Alexander Foley laws so that if people have the temerity to acting objective what's going on they will be criminalized and what is that this mass immigration being evolved now my party is not opposed to immigration I'm not opposed to immigration never have been I married 131 years ago we're still together but immigration should be about an amount of immigration that is right in the numbers and in the types of people that you need so that they integrate into your society and don't require to be changed into something else that's not what we've had with mass immigration uncontrollable essentially it's been unlimited essentially you've had something like 8 million people come since Tony Blair describe this and that's probably a conservative estimate with a small state was that immigration about transforming society into something else for an ideological point of view and I think you have to say it's obvious but that's what it was about and now many parts of Britain in many parts of Western Europe the unit of a foreign countries inside our country we have to stop mass uncontrolled immigration and we have to be able to integrate the people that we've already got and I think we should do what the Australians have done and say well if you don't like you here nobody and it doesn't matter it's going of course we have our issues we've got soldiers who served in Northern Ireland include faith being prosecuted for alleged crimes committee 40 odd years ago while at the same times IRA murderers and terrorists let off stop trade and did not feel the force ship of the law we have several thousand ex-military people sleeping ominous freeze while we don't ease we see this has been discussed by a song about the issues with free speech which is being eroded only CERN opinions on now these are our opinions which fit in would be politically correct left-wing or view of the world which permeates everything not just politics but the mass media and the universities you know I always thought universities are places where you went to discuss ideas in discovering new ideas now it's a place where you are only allowed to have certain things in certain ideas or you will be in trouble and of course if you do it on Google or something on Twitter or if you do it on YouTube you may find yourself getting a visit from the full full police as was described these ludicrous things are happening by car they want and I'm not saying that you should be allowed to say something which is deliberately offensive or violinist or defamatory or threatening nobody is going to be fair now but now if you say so everything for example if you were to suggest but women don't have penises you might have a visit from the forum for this believe I think I believe some illegal and as George Orwell said Jimmy time was of universal deceit telling you truth becomes a revolutionary act well now anybody gonna end up and speak the simple truth in the terms that they believe it is now a revolutionary 1994's meant to be an option what they're doing is creating what's being called a blue leg of the mind the all crude way to do it in right in Soviet Russia or Communist China were to create a real blue like where people disagree and says the wrong things you've sent them off to electronic miles away in the in the desert so in Siberia where they were forced to be reeducation if they were lucky enough to survive there's a much easier way of doing that now is you just prevent people from thinking or saying things or saying what they think by the mine where you've got pressure on them they'd allowed to say certain things normally platformed if you say so at least you won't be reported in the mass media if you're a politician and you say certain things and you might actually get a visit from the real police and you're mine now if you find yourself in prison if you go too far how are we going to combat this and then I'd like to come on what is you doing now where are you well Richard was very kind about how we survived the last 12 months so when I took over as leader I wasn't sure that we would've I frankly I inherited them actually an appalling the situation we were on the verge of collapse and I'm not sure I will ever decide whether it was sheer incompetence or sabotage behind the way it doesn't play that because we were about to collapse anyway I didn't save the party but millions of people live safely partly because I gave em the opportunity to do so I gave them the opportunity to raise the money to get us out at a financial which is now there's a long as I say so we are in our it was a one-handed evening gave the best definition of God you and obviously by the people forward and what we've had on the rule by the European is government of the people for they need you by the EU and that is the Democratic in anybody's called you can't be a democratic country unless you govern your own affairs then the newer lives will be sacked by you the people you don't live in a democracy if you can't set your document and we live in a state gutted by the EU governed by the permission and we didn't elect them and we can't sack them so we need to get that back as a core principle political democracy well the violence doesn't make you a democracy so you didn't really get much of a choice and this is what I come back to the policy I mentioned before we need an electoral system but should we turn in the voting for the you imagine how different things would be if instead of being I think is 10 on TV am Telling this is my what you ought to do there were 10 or 12 of this thing you can please you we would be living in a very different place indeed mrs. might probably wouldn't be Prime Minister and get somebody with half an idea of what they should be doing but political democracy is about creating the proper democratic political system people suppose are worthless unless they can actually change there's an economic collapse well when you believe in free trade in UK where it is possible where it's played and equitable but economy has to be run for the venom you can't say you can't you don't have these discussions with economists said in the party whatever which must be totally committed to create right ok leave a trace great idea of the mortgage we've got better but how could you complete fairly with China that has got literally millions upon millions of cheap people who work for peanuts cheap labor and when they say you have to have an economic system that says yes we want free trade but no we don't want people sleeping on the streets because they can't afford we see that every day and there's more and more of them but what kind of a society says it's okay to have a group of people sitting in the restaurant enjoying themselves while 50 20 yards away you've got people studying cardboard boxes because they haven't got a hope in hell policy yet but I'd like to see reference given to people who serve their country that doesn't necessarily mean high wages people might open fire service police teachers nurses if they're going to do a job when I get my wages let's try and give them a leg up somewhere else let's give them a point system so it's easier for them to move the last bit what I said is you get is libertarian and traditional that's quite enough contradictory fixer libertarianism is defined as belief in Sweden for action so long as it doesn't harm anybody else and traditionalism it is supporting established customs early but what can summer the decency of the British people and what you keep stands for more than that we want to live in a free living living that new society when we're governed by our laws and that our customs and our traditions that sounds pretty good and this is our long-standing visions and there is the election violation and if you live there vote for it so good luck to Andrew in that I had a campaign meeting earlier today there's one of the things we've been able to do over the last couple of months is to raise enough money to pay to campaign teenagers Alan graves who is barley and example winner who is one of our activists we know imminently to organize these cameras perspective because I think has advantages or something like we've got to now what were they going to do is to recruit candidates what they are doing there we've got only well over a thousand candidates in that local election but we need over to two thousand two and a half baths in order to qualify us for a TV broadcast so if you would like to be a calculator if you know someone who would please step forward and volunteer it doesn't cost any money and if you do we need ten days first of all so that they get a TV broadcast second so that we pop our national percentage because the more the center devotedly care the more we qualified for attention from the BBC and immediate later on if we get our votes why should they talk to us we've gotta be out there getting advice we're also preparing for the next general election frankly we don't know when that's gonna be when you see what's happening in Parliament with mrs. Mae's majority dwindling down to the battery now it's difficult to see how long she can go on without a college and they can be caught at a moment's notice I've heard it said that for me that's more given the state that they we throw to accomplish or so we are also building up candidates for the general election there are 650 650 for top you want me to lead a candidate at general election if you know someone that might want to do that ask them to put their name forward and go through this PDF selection process there might be a European election we come on as I said earlier on because every time you have to do this we've done and we need there is a European election that we will fight it and I can assure you of one thing but if we do the candidates that we select this time their primary qualification would be loyal team I will not preside over a system again which has saved the popping fillers and the opportunities politics could bring out the best and the worst of people and I have seen over the years people who can't afford it fifty five pounds and ten pounds to fight for elections I've given people think of me or given you get bigger checks than that and when I see somebody go to the European Parliament he's being fought there by the members by their money their hard work and their sacrifice and they sit there and they go every day of the week raking in an extra free minds when the euros tax free and then I've got the nerve to tell me that one right wing so they can't leave the unit anymore and then they're all running off to something called the British apart because they think they've got a very choice we use fire panics European election some of the top of the list Authority and the ability to do the job the ability to think and speak it's been a very very busy 13 or 12 months now maybe 13 months since I took over as you did I wasn't sure that we could say it not only have we saved it but its greatest honor in describing we are now going to face the next big day folks it's not my party it's not my struggle it's yours because it's your party and it's your country all I'm doing is giving you an opportunity to do what needs to be done so if you want to live in a free country listen if you want to live in a country where you can speak your mind without fear otherwise and you better do something about it when this asked to use that state your name we don't have a roving mic so that you speak as it clearly says who you are what your question is and who is directed at fiber and I defended myself I think I get invited on to other things because to do is attack bring up the other so do not ask me about predator as I famously happened to me on the lunchtime what used to be called the daily politics program my quest officer actually now can't get that mainstream media to actually return his calls the last time I was on was outside Apollo and Sky News better bowler hats because he actually went out the nest of people I managed to get me on so I believe that the reason that they know to ask me or to talk about predator is because they know that what I'm describing is the only way that we will actually I know that very well and as I described as an amateur are there is no way this is why because up until recently anyway he had the reach of a million you can see we have to do it the hard way which is to use what's available to us the as much as we can I'll go on reasonable programs this is why I need so everybody's paper box where there's an election so that all look at it you can study this we can stay locally so I'm surely not an easy answer to your question but as I said many things we albeit deliberately kept on and of course we focus on us now you have not long ago when he was being racist and when he was perceived to the Pope in Scotland when he was attacked he buddies family were attacks at a restaurant near his home where they were having something lunch when he got hit over the head with a bat guard that maybe stitch again so what's different okay so I've said the two things possibly about literally and fundamentally start that people want to say that are putting the very probably knows I'm seeking the truth there isn't that much difference about the things that we've said he come under its severe attack because somebody poster at the last week in the referendum on the immigration issue so critical to be honest and it wouldn't cost you anything to say well okay I may not be there jared says but if you want to which is only there is no pensions even now I still work on the skeleton star and on a shoestring in many ways and what I need is an expert of dimensions and the next economist because the nation system across the Western world is not sustainable because people are getting older when they mentioned sunburst on Tuesday what I say every time is becoming in an inverted pyramid because you've got when Pence's was first in the centuries most people were lucky in failure to be 60 or 60 and they if they did maybe average age expectancies have gone far and if people were to retire at 55 they might have another 30 years of life to intervention and this is a problem that is hitting Western climbers not just Western countries because of countries that don't have pea tubes like China repeat India and other places they're actually about their ages their mortality pages are going up because improved nutrition and health in those countries so it's a common problem across the world is don't just affect the West how do you solve the problem well this is why I think you need we need some expert openness to think about this one of the things are one of the best speakers that I hadn't heard actually on a platform many years ago that was the cheerleader the Chilean economics minister who introduced a new pension scheme because they had the same problem of all countries which was an entity that population is gradually aging they introduced a pension scheme whereby you actually had your own private entity where you went in an assessor and I said what items you are to retire retire 55 or 60 or 65 they say this is what you need under way they would have a passport like a building society passport and they would see the money grow and that money was protected under the Chilean Constitution the government wasn't allowed to grow whether it's the easiest I've got a bit outdated map but one that did is actually transformed the economy most people realized they were working for themselves if they took a sick day off maybe to get paid money wasn't backing their pension and in actually had a very beneficial effect on the economy overall now I'm not suggesting we adopt that system but I think we need more imaginative ways of looking at it so that for example people who might want to retire at 65 don't want to stop working employees so they go from having nine to five is five day week jobs they've got no job we need to find a way of allowing people to you as it were downsized their working life so that they stop doing a very busy job in those part-time or whatever and we do more flexible approach the patient's allow people to draw a certain occupation while earning money taxes are being taxed on meditation pokémon to the player these are the pharmaceuticals relational approach I'm not telling you I've got an answer for this problem because I had them it's one that besets all the countries of the Western world is living at the same time expecting they get pensions and one thing I would really prefer we stop wasting some money couldn't wait weakly staaan providing housing and benefits for eternal just because they turn up from the tax we can stop paying for the stock may well be round the year in foreign aid to countries where they've got their own economic space programs and reverse do you do when money is short is evil and respected juries are bodies is a luxury that we can't afford and that's the first thing that we should be doing and using I don't know because we're not right tell the new customers for telling technology because people have all kinds of custom Jakarta news they can enjoy privately and I think that I understand that what we are talking about and this is a bigger problem because of an issue because of mass I'll control the aggression and open cause if and I'd rather about integration years ago with us integration suppose if you had gradual immigration which was appropriate numbers nobody would really notice able to speak because when you have a problem is when you know in influx of millions of people a relational period of time and suddenly you create artificial problems you create any plays you create cities within cities of people who identify with where they came from or where they are and that's the one so an integration problem and we know one of the most densely populated kind in the world I was standing at when I first offended anything I've hired a student to actually do a spreadsheet with all of the things of the world their land masses and their populations and density and I was staggered to find that brilliant claim I think there's about 20 most densely populated country and if you take movement where most people live and where most migrants settle we shoot up the scale we want density populated at work I'm sure it's still the same but Japan or China in every penny I'm sure you have rhythm across a channel about France the first thing you notice about this in this open space and there's some obviously less painful ways that they have more or less the same population as us and they've got four times the living space of England and we don't need millions of people in this country the idea that this is beneficial is nonsense because first of all you're very often bringing in people who are not skilled or not they're not doctors scientists and what you're doing this increases GP young mainly because if they come and do something we gross domestic product of the country expands but actually what's happening is we know this is not just here is an American rapper living standards happening suspect himself when we spoke ma is been very disciplined on the same bottle neck rhythm a set of the pass and I know you have a policy of the nonce accepting ex VLP members into the authority so my question is in three parts woods the past weeks reading Citroen a policy especially as it may be contravene and gearbox heat up we need to talk about our unique more members we are the only party that I know of the Aten has prescribed at least that we say that we do not accept former members of the National they assured such as work and that's in our Constitution but there is a rule that says that that rule can be ye these special circumstances by the chairman and the NEC of the party if they so lenient we have that rule for very big reason is because right from when we first started out people tried to be false right and cause you a problem and we've had it we had somebody back in 97 it wasn't it was it turned out because of an undercover field wide channel 4 at the time that he was being lead activist and they've got close to the leadership of the party and that accused me of dissemination that is that is what I used to have laws against it in the deep south of America we said what people can't marry black people and might skip my what isn't black but she said slightly darker skin than I am and I didn't like being accused of that by somebody from the DMV who've been working his way to the top in YouTube as an adviser of the legal so when they do respect to u so the National Front was full of neo-nazi by the over to the Bienvenue was a world finder back to the 60s I remember calling the Jordan you start I went to prison his right-hand man was dealt in dog who formed a national problem his right-hand man was Nick Griffin before the VMP so there is a linear descent of Nazi ideology in those parties and therefore anybody that belong to them we have to be very careful about letting the meaning because although other parties don't have a description and there are X p.m. three members who were Labour councillors and Tory councilors the media doesn't go after them if we let one person who that causes us a problem they'll be after us after a fox so we have to be very careful and then we don't want people that subscribe to those types of ideas if I'm not suggesting you be entirely honorable but we don't want people that we used to belong to private parties like that didn't get anywhere and then come a while to latch on to us and promote those kind of ideas which we've never had don't have and don't want if you think that your case worthy of review that what I would say is write the letter to our Chairman Kirsten area explain your decision and why you think you should be allowed in and that will be considered by [Applause] I thank you all that I think he's a very brave man I think he's he's actually breakfast and if he wasn't he wouldn't be the banner years as heroes tend to be rash and reckless he's very radius to succor the right things I don't really serve anybody else I'm sure that everybody agrees I think I say it is something that has to be more to the neighbors because it becomes under this wall because he worked for the ability and he says in these four words of Spain and they went use all the space so as I say it was something that would not be considered this sight of an ironic something I created rest because it is a divisive issue because there are men you don't want it I have a party I have to keep everybody together and I keep as many people into the party as possible penny said that we've got a few recently that actually it's not too much of a tragedy these rings around owners against abstentions yes ok so you place cheese what have you and I yeah we've got the point thank you very much generally dressing thank you tracing everything point and finally you should you should be us as we speak I have a technical sense but compiled a report on 5g to talk about first of all the health effects that you talk about is it dangerous is it not how a big business wants to use this that's an adventure and positives of smaller businesses but all kinds of aspects of being researched about that so I hope to be able to produce it all before I leave the earth because the policy to right the list of 20 says that the euro European single currency is a controversy of the Union if we'd had voted to the main in 2016 you can bet your life but Mr P or miss Tobias beta section will be saying well but this whole Barclays favorite now and they can no longer have there be totally state out of the single currency there is also legislation I believe the single argument which could require us to join there is other legislation in Norway there where they do say you can no longer stay out of single property you should join it's not something they make it an issue or now because it would be deeply unpopular at the wrong time to do it but that doesn't mean to say they would if we stay in why wouldn't they want us to join because you can't have a political state without its own currency in the central bank they've got it and I required the other members to join if we studying then yes we will be required to join us public politics is live over there and you have to fight the battle in front of you because if you march your uncle too far back which might happen in the future you finish the one equation about your honor and think we're not thinking about it now our symbol is still the first decision lots of the manufacturing jobs used to bring prosperity they've all gone bill is called coal mine is gone our economic policy would mean to see how we can regenerate those businesses and where there was a plane we produced by Professor Steve before she was one of our members in which he talked about ideas for good is very careful is because we can't have a return to the sixties and seventies where governments in businesses that didn't understand put a lot of money and didn't actually achieve very much so what we would like to do in our economic policy going forward least to actually look at ways that we can bring manufacturing jobs and really enjoy the fact to not just a north of England but the whole of the UK because I think it's very important that we both Steve important at Manchester University I need to contact now so I can send you a copy of the report that he actually wrote my email address later so something you want to do I don't have an answer to everything I don't have a policy to everything well there's an awful lot of overseas investment one idea that was suggested to me which hasn't become a policy yet I need to in Detroit is that instead of taxing profits you didn't tax profits provided they were kept in the business you having tax there's no even business and reinvested in the business then you don't tax it but otherwise comment makes their profit of the two million quid and they have to pay twenty percent in tax well wouldn't be better if they reinvested that in the business and actually reduce more jobs more prosperity if they take it out as dividends for shareholders or participating in taxi we do fantastic audience thank you all very much for coming just to close because I first of all ask you all to give a big round of applause to the hotel because they have been tested too they did about this stood oppression and have big round of applause once again full panel they will be hanging around to talk to people with numbering away so you get a chance to ask a question directly from media on the talk and show your community call us somebody in the bar in the for aiding a drink or coffee that's it and he's sending all these exhaustive different

Gove vs Johnson, political chaos and Brexit racism | Owen Jones talks back

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Where should we begin? It’s been utter madness this week as the Brexit fallout continues. The Conservative party leadership contest was expected to feature the …

Brexit – James O'Brien The UK Lost something after Brexit

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James O’Brien on how truth and respect has been lost since Brexit.

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significance weight of the population and I'm afraid more pertinently my profession a significant swath of the population and my profession will not even raise an eyebrow at what happened late on Friday when the people who had furiously denied any wrongdoing insisted that they've been stitched up by the electoral commission enlisted the BBC to put forward a defense of their position before the prosecution and conviction had been properly reported and then on March the 29th the day that we were of course supposed to quote sleeve end quote they file away the news that they're not appealing against it at all now it's very hard to look at the timing of that decision without concluding that they were planning on withdrawing their appeal all along in other words they acknowledged that their grounds for appeal were at best flimsy and at worst non-existent from the moment that that finding came in okay they get a free pass on the BBC to defend themselves against not allegations of course at that point but findings but March the 29th it's almost as if they knew all along that they had very very very flimsy grounds to appeal but that if brexit had somehow been hauled over the line which was of course the date that March the 29th represented then then then they'd be able to put their hands up and cough to their guilt of the offenses they have found to have committed and and there it is really you know that the point at which yet again we find ourselves looking in the rearview mirror and saying how the hell did this happen how have we ended up and again I appreciate that not everybody thinks this is the right way to approach things a lot of you still Harbor enormous bitterness and understandable ill-will towards the members of your your circle your friends and your families that fell for a lot of this hogwash and of course in many cases continue to do so but genuinely if you voted to leave the European Union because you felt that somehow your democratic freedom's had been compromised by membership if he felt that somehow being subjected to supranational courts as a as a hearing of last resort somehow undermined your sense of being British and if your sense of being British hinged upon that traditional epithet about Fairplay and I don't think there's anything embarrassing or wrong about that I think historically and I know an awful lot of people again have a problem with this point of view but I think we are a country that has revered and promoted fair play III know my post-colonial history I know that the Empire in many ways did the opposite of those things on other shores but I'm talking about the context of my own lifetime the pride one takes in being British is built upon a perception that a silvio berlusconi or a donald trump could never happen here were too were too laid-back we're too British we're too cool were too concerned with fairness and decency and stiff upper lips but then in just three years we've been turned into a country where in a campaign ostensibly dedicated to promoting British laws and democracy and transparency can like a like a like a weasel in the night remove its appeal late on a Friday securing the knowledge that the people paid to keep the public informed of the most important issues facing the country will be largely quiet because they're still all embedded in their own support for this ludicrous project course we can't properly report on a fact that vote leaf found guilty of electoral offenses by the Electoral Commission insisted shrewdly that they've done nothing wrong nothing to see here didn't you say last year I may have got this wrong so forgive me if I have did she pop up on the telly this weekend in claiming that they couldn't prove they were innocent as they destroyed all the evidence a great message for you their kids destroy all the evidence and then and then he won't have to answer the accusations and the allegations that's what we've done to Britain turned it into a country where the winners are proven to have cheated to have broken the law to have ridden roughshod over what we would all have once considered to be the finest traditions of British democracy and they do so with barely a peep from the people paid to keep you informed and up-to-date I think these problems started long before brexit but actually culminated in a sense in brexit this deep polarization that exists within many countries but you can see it very clearly taking place in two particular countries the United States and the UK the United States the polarization that brought a person like Donald Trump to the presidency the polarization that is happening now with brexit where people are choosing to ignore facts the facts on the ground they're choosing to side with people who are deeply corrupt and they know they are corrupt but because there is a higher goal because there is a more important hill that we have to climb up on and climb up on and die upon the idea that you know people like Boris Johnson or people like this like Boris Johnson who is corrupt and even X how can I say he demonstrates his his complete ineptitude and he is complete indifference to society to ordinary people every day and he still manages to have a grassroots support and there is even talk of him becoming expert their next prime minister you know I can't imagine it's you can't imagine anyone who deserves to be Prime Minister less than Boris Johnson so these types of people how do they how do they have this power how do they have this type of support it's due to this deep polarization that is a that is a culminating now with brexit you either a for brexit or you're against for exit there is no middle ground there is no compromise and now there's an idea that well threesome a is going to try to compromise with jeremy corbyn but i don't see it happening because the the people within both parties are so against working together that it's not going to it's not going to succeed it's going to fail

Andrew Neil destroy's Nick Clegg

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Andrew Neil destroys Nick Clegg over his assertion that exiting the Single Market was not a campaign issue during the EU Referendum, on the Daily Politics. Vote Leave’s policy was to leave the Single Market and the Remain camp used this thinking it would help them win the referendum. Now the country has voted to leave, they are pretending it wasn’t part of the referendum debate.

Video the property of the BBC Daily Politics.

and let's just look at what both the leaders of your side of the campaign and the leaders of the leaf campaign said when asked about the single market let's see if we can see that now the British public would be voting if we leave would be to leave the EU and leave the single market come out the single market I think that that is almost certainly would be the case yes do you want us to stay inside the single market yes or no no we should be outside the single market I had Michael Gove in that chair and I said after brexit will we be in the European single market yes or no and he said no and he was right so we won't be a leader right Michael yeah absolutely we'd be out of the single market that's the reality Britain would be quitting quitting the single market where was the manifesto where was the document that's no hearing I think what they said

MPs debate Theresa May's revised Brexit deal in parliament – watch live

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Theresa May puts a new backstop plan to her cabinet and the House of Commons as Jeremy Corbyn calls on MPs to reject the deal.
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James O'Brien vs media failures over Vote Leave's massive Brexit crime

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The Andrew Marr Show, James O’Brien & Politics Live 31 March & 1 April 2019

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they're learning corrigible delinquents at times maybe yourself man this is a felony prediction of what breasted would do to us all what fresh hell is this nice hair Jacob Riis Mosley I'm Beth beg your pardon Jacob Riis mug or the radio this morning sticking up for German fascists happy days if you think we've reached a pretty pass at which we could realistically describe we've reached rock bottom now the only ways up along come some of the usual suspects that digger's ever deeper into deceit and deception and division and I'm afraid darkness so I think this week um realistically could see Theresa May insisting repeatedly that you can't keep voting until you get the result that you want when describing the increasing calls for especially given the did you see what happened late on Friday after we'd said goodbye to each other vote leave withdrew their appeal against the Electoral Commission's finding that they broke an electoral law the timing a you think about that Michael Gove and Boris Johnson currently pretty close to leading the field on who would be the next leader of the Conservative Party ago quite realistically the next prime minister the two co-chairman of an organisation found to have breached electoral law in quite a spectacular way and I'm fairly confident that no one will ask them about it or at least if they do will be a cursory aside quite incredible actually when you reflect upon what we would have felt together five years ago about a major force in British politics of force in British politics that could change the game for generations having done so off the back of law-breaking it would be unthinkable and yet if you need an illustration of just how dangerous this entrenched tribalism has become this would surely be it I honestly would not have given you the time of day three years ago if you'd said to me that Britain was going to be turned into a country of such chaotic divided absurdity the significance weight of the population and fraid more pertinently my profession a significant swath of the population and my profession will not even raise an eyebrow at what happened late on Friday when the people who had furiously denied any wrongdoing insisted that they'd been stitched up by the electoral commission enlisted the BBC to put forward a defense of their position before the prosecution and conviction had been properly reported and then on March the 29th the day that we were of course supposed to quote sleeve and quote they file away the news that they're not appealing against it at all now it's very hard to look at the timing of that decision without concluding that they were planning on withdrawing their appeal all along in other words they acknowledged that their grounds for appeal were at best flimsy and at worst non-existent from the moment that that finding came in okay they get a free pass on the BBC to defend themselves against not allegations of course at that point but findings but March the 29th it's almost as if they knew all along that they had very very very flimsy grounds to appeal but that if brexit had somehow been hauled over the line which was of course the date that March the 29th represented then then then they'd be able to put their hands up and cough to their guilt of the offenses they have found to have committed and and there it is really you know that the point at which yet again we find ourselves looking in the rearview mirror and saying how the hell did this happen how have we ended up and again I appreciate that not everybody thinks this is the right way to approach things a lot of you still Harbor enormous bitterness and understandable ill-will towards the members of your your circle your friends and your families that they fell for a lot of this hogwash and of course in many cases continue to do so but genuinely if you voted to leave the European Union because you felt that somehow your democratic freedoms had been compromised by membership if you felt that somehow being subjected to supranational courts as a as a hearing of last resort somehow undermined your sense of being British and if your sense of being British hinged upon that traditional epithet about fair play and I don't think there's anything embarrassing or wrong about that I think historically and I know an awful lot of people again have a problem with this point of view but I think we are a country that has revered and promoted fair play III know my post-colonial history I know the Empire in many ways did the opposite of those things on other shores but I'm talking about the context of my own lifetime the pride one takes in being British is built upon a perception that a silvio berlusconi or a donald trump could never happen here we're to wit who laid back we're two British Whigs who cool were too concerned with fairness and decency and stiff upper lips but then in just three years we've been turned into a country where in a campaign ostensibly dedicated to promoting British laws and democracy and transparency can like a like a like a weasel in the night remove its appeal late on a Friday secure in the knowledge that the people paid to keep the public informed of the most important issues facing the country will be largely quiet because they're still all embedded in their own support for this ludicrous project cause we can't properly report a fact that vote leaf found guilty of electoral offenses by the Electoral Commission insisted shrilly that they've done nothing wrong nothing to see here didn't you say last year I may have got this wrong so forgive me if I have did she pop up on the tell you this weekend claiming that they couldn't prove they were innocent cuz they destroyed all the evidence the great message for you their kids destroy all the evidence and then and then you won't have to answer the accusations and the allegations but that hangover for some of the leadership candidates might be quite tricky restoring the observer this morning vote leave the campaign that led the referendum debate – for us to get out of the European Union which of course was led by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove have dropped their appeal against the finding that they broke electoral law by pushing the rules and spending in a way a lot more than they were allowed to 675 thousand pounds more than they were allowed to it's a big big break it's a big break and they were fined 400,000 pounds and at the time they said they would appeal it they're very cross about how they believe the electoral commission operated but Boris Johnson and Michael Gove of course were front and center in that campaign that was denied they did anything wrong or even necessarily if the political leaders knew anything about it but I know later in the program you've got peas Lister who was involved in that and I just think this is quite interesting because it was my colleague Carol Cadwallader who broke this a year ago with a whistleblower called Samir Sonny and I interviewed them on Friday for a piece we're doing this week and he has had a terrible year as a result of that whistleblowing he was outed as gay his family didn't know about it he lost his job he's still struggling at the moment and I think in many ways this vindicates the position that they took in the first I'm sitting at home thinking I was right all along yeah okay well let's move on Rex it demonstrations in Parliament Square this week which we were talking about also this week we saw vote leave dropping its appeal against the Electoral Commission's findings that it overspent during the referendum campaign the former Labour MP Giesler Stewart was chair of vote leave and joins us from Birmingham Keyes list you at first of all you saw all the anger outside Parliament this week who do you blame for the fact that we are not outside the EU today I think once Parliament had put a difficult decision to the people and then promised to implemented I think we have to blame Parliament and the individuals many of them are acting with it with absolute best of intentions but collectively they have shown themselves incapable of delivering what they had promised to do and I think that is the problem and during the paper review you had that sort of very interesting Berkey and debate in there our MPs delegates or as Burke said you elected me for your judgement but even Burke subsequently was deselected by his constituency so I think in our representative democracy when when we have no effective government which is what we've got at the moment we resolve those problems by general elections constituent EES can vote for the candidates parties decide who their candidates are and we get a new set of people coming into Parliament and I simply cannot see any other way out of the current situation than the general election now Dominic Cummings who you worked with very closely during this campaign blames in particular Tory brexit ears in the ERG he called them this week the narcissistic delusional subset of the ERG useful idiots for remain do you agree with him I find that we've reached the point where name-calling on either side really doesn't get us anywhere and both sides are doing this and I would just say to them stop it if you're a boat out there or if you're running a business you're trying to conduct your life and you've watched two and a half years of MPs being unwilling to make compromises then I think you get pretty fed up and we have seen that the last vote for tourism aids withdrawal agreement even people like me who really did not this was not the deal I really wanted at the end but if I'd still been an MP I would have said look this is as good as gonna get and they've got to make a decision that either gonna start falling in behind her deal manage getting the way out or say we want a different set of players vote leave broke the law according to the Electoral Commission in a serious way this week vote leave dropped its appeal against that decision why I think what it shows is that we have been outspent at every stage of this process whether it was before the referendum started and the government spent nine point four million on a leaflet during their campaign actually if money was the question the collectively the remain science spent more and going to Appeals costs money – yes Andrew there's one other point if people now who argue for a second referendum if he had a campaign where we honestly always tried to be rule compliant we had a compliance committee every other organization across boat has been found wanting in some states well you didn't try very hard because you overspent the tune of six hundred and seventy five thousand pounds a huge amount of money which the Electoral Commission thought was a very very serious electoral offense you broke the law it happened under your watch in this organization will you apologize to people that now it was in relation of one particular donation where the electoral commission interpreted the rules as have being acting in in concert which we we had got legal advice which said it wasn't so the key question is Andrew if anybody wants a second referendum then the referendum legislation as it stands and the way in electric Commission and the Information Commission interprets them that law needs rewriting and that was something what you also have to face nevertheless the Electoral Commission is trusted by many people at the time of their original judgment vote leave said it was wholly inaccurate and contains false accusations that do not stand up to scrutiny do you stand by that statement I felt that we our biggest problem in the end was that we destroyed all our data and therefore some of the evidential bases which people are asking for all I can tell you Andrew he said at every stage in terms of the processes we did our level best to be in compliance with the rules if they were interpreted afterwards in a way which was different from the advice we got at that time then so be it the regulator's always the final word you destroyed the data the Election Commission were very upset that you did not cooperate more clearly with them at the time do you understand by many people in this country on the other side of the argument feel that this referendum in 2016 was corrupted and cannot be trusted because of the way vote leave behaved well the electric Commission never sought any evidence from the people from the vote leave campaign but let me say something else after two o'clock but no they didn't they offered more evidence but but Andrew if if this was based which is people are now saying on a a lie the people didn't know what they were voting for that they're somehow were unaware of what the diss mode was well the opinions would have changed opinions have not changed opinions of hearten and the wondering which we still haven't done is actually looking what what remain in the context of the rest of the European Union would mean I'm not asking about the lie or what people thought but we both know that in elections and referendums the amount of money spent really matters that affects the number of adverts people see things that come through their door and how therefore how they think and how they react six hundred and seventy five thousand pounds is a huge amount of money to overspend as it were by accident I ask you one more time for all those people watching who are really upset by this can you apologize to them for that either mistake or witting breaking of the law what I said at every stage we were rule compliant according to the legal advice we were given at that time and if money was the question remain spent by far more money on the campaign then leaved it the government spent more money on the campaign than we did so do not say this was a question of money this is why I say the rule should have been much clearer we had a compliance committee we were as our legal advice was always that that was the right thing to do if with hindsight the compliance that the the regulator's found otherwise the regulator has the last word usually Stuart thanks very much for talking to it that's what we've done to Britain turned it into a country where the winners are proven to have cheated to have broken the law to have ridden roughshod over what we would all have once considered to be the finest traditions of British democracy and they do so with barely a peep from the people paid to keep you informed and up-to-date I never know now as of about a couple of years ago I never know why angle we're going to take a turn o'clock at the top of the show on the days that we address brexit I didn't think we were going to go down this path but it turns out that's what's been bubbling away within me most furiously over the course of the weekend the fact that these people can somehow still bleat meaninglessly about the will of the people when we now know that the electoral offences committed during the brexit referendum are not even going to be appealed by the organisation found guilty the fine of 61 thousand pounds was of course imposed upon the group off the Electoral Commission concluded that it broke legal spending limits by donating hundreds of thousands of pounds to another leave campaigner a 22-year old fashion student called Darren where'd you go next sixty one thousand pounds is chicken feed to these people and we now know they've paid it Friday afternoon Electoral Commission said we found they broke electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event serious offenses such as these undermine public confidence in our system just think about that we found that vote leave broke the electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event and you if you're still down the rabbit hole will now be shouting something about all well the other side were bad as well or oh well I don't care if the will of the people just get on with it that line right there the electoral commission these are the only institutions we have and you know they're not perfect but they're all we have and they are unequivocal in their findings broke the electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event now two things occurred to me this morning the first days of course if we could all forget how we voted in 2016 would we not all agree that we have to vote again after is found that the winning side broke the law on a scale described by the Electoral Commission as breaking the rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event do you see what I mean about how deep the division has become if we could if we could use that thing that we talked about last week someone even texted me the name of it but I've forgotten the thing that Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith use in men in black to wipe your memory to wipe your memory bank so you don't remember the specific events of your encounters with the aliens and the men in black if I could wipe your hand on heart hand on heart you know I'm right if I could wipe your memory of how you voted and you just arrived here without one view either way and I said well it turns out that one side broke the electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event oh and by the way the two men that ran the organization found to have broken the electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event they're currently among the bookies favourites to be the next prime minister and they've never ever ever been held to account for this then we'd all at least agree that we should have the vote again wouldn't we can I do that as a phony can you ring me as if you've had your memory wiped or I mean on what possible planet would you now be arguing that this isn't an appalling scar upon our democratic history this campaign issued hollow slogans about sovereignty and control while knowingly undermining the rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event do you want to just have a crack at explaining to me how this has happened how have we come to this oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three and hand on heart how could anybody who was on the quotes winning side end quote I still don't know what you think you want how could anybody be happy with this I'm gonna embarrass a friend of mine now I'm hoping he's not listening but I play FIFA on the PlayStation pretty much every week and have them for about the last 20 years with the same friend I've had since I was 16 years old and he doesn't he doesn't feel his joy and victory is in any way diluted when he cheats it's a strange personality mindset he's one of the people I love most in the world but when I've caught him think on a couple of occasions because I didn't know that the new version had allowed you to change different settings or that he'd been teaching himself little tricks without telling me what he was doing if he if he wins by cheating he still dances around the room just as joyously and just as joyfully as if he'd won fair and square and I couldn't it's just the way I made it's nothing to do with education or influences or parenting or schools if I beat you and I cheated I'd probably cash the check but I'd feel wrong inside I'd feel a little bit soiled I'd feel fraudulent so do you as a leave voter now you know that they cheated they broke the law they rode roughshod over the rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event do you feel soiled because you should well we're going to move on because we're going to talk about vote leave the official leave campaign which has dropped its appeal against the 61 thousand pound fine for breaking electoral law over spending limits we can talk to Emma Graham Harrison who is from The Guardian and the observer Emma can you explain what vote leave were found to have done hi so vote leave broke electoral law the electoral commission found there's a series of infractions they found of the law but at the heart of it is the fact that they went over spending limits by about half a million pounds or nearly half a million pounds and they did that through making a what they described as a donation to another campaign group but the Electoral Commission found that they actually coordinated the spending of this six hundred seventy five thousand pounds they described what happened as serious breaches of electoral law and these are laws that were made by Parliament to ensure that our elections are fair and transparent so I think you know what happened would be a matter of serious national concern at any time really that any vote had had something like this happen in a campaign but I think it's particularly a matter of concern when you have two men who are hoping to become our next Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Michael Gove who had very senior positions in this campaign or over the period when it was involved in breaking electoral law and we haven't heard from them about this right now vote leave have decided to drop the appeal as I said what are you hearing about that the reasons for it well I mean it's obviously really provoked leave to say why they're dropping the appeal not for me to speak on their behalf in a statement they said they dropped it for elect all sorry for financial reasons as regards that I would just say you know this is a group who've proved themselves extremely effective at fundraising in the past so you know there is a question about why they wouldn't be continuing their fundraising if they considered the appeal essential to clear their name and yesterday we did see one of the senior members of vote leave talking about that and she didn't really address the issue of financial concerns all right Steve ager you were on the campaign committee of that leave is it the right decision to drop the appeal it's really a matter for the vote leave directors I'm not a director of vote leave but do you think I was right to drop the appeal well I think they possibly have may have found it dropped it because it's too expensive to keep pursuing it but these really are matters for the vote leave directors and they're not questions that I can answer Fraser well the fine was what 60 grand they say they've spent almost a million quid fighting this so you can see how the economics don't stack up and they were fine to think 40 grand for sending text messages without permission they couldn't sure they had permission but that's because they deleted the database just like the Electoral Commission has asked them to so this whole thing is incredibly messy and the bottom line for me is that the left side were vastly outspent by the remain side because they had the government as well as the remain campaign and still leave one I can see whether it drives me most it's about breaking the law isn't it I mean you may say it's not a level playing field in terms of who spent what and they were outspent in your view but in terms of the actual judgment I mean Steve Baker at the time of the original judgment vote leave said it was wholly inaccurate and suggested that the Electoral Commission was politically motivated do you share that view I am concerned about it because various senior figures have made statements which do indicate their views on one side of the question but I think this is a moment to be extremely serious about what is going on as I think democracy itself is on the table here we have a large number of these institutions which regulate us one way or another and it's absolutely essential that all of those institutions are politically neutral and scrupulously apply the law equally to all now we're talking about vote leave today but there are also been problems with other campaigns and I think it's very important if we're to have these institutions and have them operate credibly they must be scrupulously neutral yes no one else has been found guilty of serious breaches of electoral law and I think sort of bringing this talking about this in terms of who won the referendum or making it a question of what the result is is is a mistake in many ways because what we're talking about here is serious breaches of the laws that are at the heart of our democracy the laws that keep our elections fair and transparent and regardless of whether or not it had an impact on the outcome we should be asking ourselves as a country serious questions about how this happened and why people who were involved in it haven't really been called to account okay they've dropped the appeal neither give nor Johnson has spoken publicly about what happened they've not tried to defend themselves to explain it yesterday Jesus Stewart was on the Marsha she didn't apologize for what happened and right to talk about the level of the the fine it seems again a very strange way to look at it I mean maybe the finest is too low these are laws that protect I mean part of our democracy but so we're all agreed that the law must be obeyed right it's obviously no question about that the law must be obeyed let me just ask just a quick question was Michael Gove Lord Chancellor at the time when he was breaching the law in this way I think that's a very risky thing for you to say Michael would have to answer that himself well it's only a question very carefully phrase these questions right question but I I'm very clear that on the campaign committee I had nothing to do whatever with the administration of money and vote leave that Steve you just let me just read this because viewers may not know in early 2016 you did send an email to parliamentary colleagues which said it is open to the vote leaf family to create separate legal entities each of which could spend 700 thousand pounds vote Li will be able to spend as much money as is necessary to win the referendum is that evidence that you and vote Li were looking at ways of exceeding spending limits any which way you could so the reason that I wrote that down and was felt able to send it out in an email to over a hundred conservative MPs was because at the time I sent it I believed it was lawful now I am extremely angry with the person who badly advised me they've never taken responsibility for poorly advising me to the point that I wrote that and have ended up sitting here today having to defend it but I am absolutely clear that my conscience my conscience is free of any blemish on this issue and I would also point out that in any event that was written before the regulated period and people can make mistakes sure so you admit it was a mistake who advised you I'm not I think that he would be better place to come forward himself right but the actual the issue is also about coordination or Joint Working as you know Steven the Electoral Commission said that they found significant evidence of coordination with believe which was supposed to be the sort of youth arm of the whole campaign leave campaign that's where the real breach came isn't it well again I can't answer for that you'd have to ask the directors of vote leaf what I did during the campaign and indeed before the campaign was to coordinate coordinate conservative MPs it's a job I've done for a long time now I think anybody who's ever tried to do it would understand that just to coordinate conservative MPs is a job in itself so it's not question I mean looking at the points raised by Emma about the leadership campaigns and people like Boris Johnson and Michael Gove is it fair to say that they those campaigns could be tainted by what has happened and the fact that the appeal has been dropped well if I could just come in on a couple of the other issues that were raised there first of all I really do have every confidence in the impartiality of our regulatory agencies whether you're talking about the Electoral Commission or the information Commission I would not question their integrity I think the problem here is people playing fast and loose with the law being caught out and also spending an awful long time litigating and trying to force their position against the electoral commission which I don't approve of and it's so interesting to know that this we should see UK finally comply with an Information Commissioner's Office request for data and information that they made last summer which you keep have spent a lot of money opposing they've taken them the ICO to tribunals twice and they finally been told right the end of the road is here you've got to comply with the law what does it say about your colleagues Boris Johnson and Michael Gove well I'd have to look into it a bit more really I don't want to condemn I mean basically if I for example I'm during the heat of an election campaign candidates are not necessarily across the detail of expenditure you might say they should be but they've got agents etc and I don't want to condemn people without knowing whether they actually were implicit in the decision this will be do you think this will be an election issue if it becomes a leadership contest that these are the sorts of things that will be discussed frankly they can save even more fundamental and leadership elections I think to speak in one breath about democracy and an expert and threats to democracy in the same breath to say it's okay to breach the door strikes me is a really odd way to go well it's exactly the tone of politics is being conducted as a member you have these extremes and people are not going to talk about things sensibly we're going to end up in a real mess and that's where we have ended up no one is suggesting a Britta breaches of the law are acceptable least of all who condemned this breach of the law I condemn all breaches of endless breach of the law I condemned this breach of the law and all Britain by this a ridiculous way of putting it got two people in senior positions in this campaign who now want to be leaders of the Conservative Party and want to be Prime Minister if we don't abide by the rule of law you cannot get out of it by saying oh well we lost but we would have won if we'd only had a few more a little bit more money delivering this lecture and in by implication smearing people I am absolutely committed to parliamentary democracy in the rule of law that is why I'm in politics as I've already said I'm enraged that I was badly advised it is essential that we uphold the law but of course the reason for upholding the law in this respect is to ensure the fairness of campaigns and as Fraser's our all day already pointed out all right the law is the law but why is it that the law matters it's in order to ensure vastly said that they're different things because they didn't breach or they weren't found to have breached the law Emma a final word before we let you go I think it's important when you talk about details of expenditure we're talking about six hundred and seventy five thousand pounds that was given to believe and by any half a million pounds over a spending at the electoral spending cap that spending cap was only seven million pounds so we're not talking about you know expenses that somebody spent on you know their lunch or a taxi or something these are huge amounts of money and again we're not talking about I don't think about who won the election or what the result is this is about safeguarding elections if people break the laws that protect our elections and protect our democracy there need to be consequences before otherwise you have to ask yourself what happens with the next election Emma grant Harrison thank you very much Steve Baker thank you for coming thank you hands up if you thought we would still be arguing about this now off the June of 2016 I know what you're thinking when the Good Friday Agreement met the red lines all of this became inevitable but even I despite having a explaining that to you for that feels like a gazillion times even I thought that that something will come up you know that I've said to you before the sense that well surely there was some growing up somewhere over the horizon they were gonna come in here but now it just gets worse and worse and worse the message we sent to the country very ghibli and and I think this honestly is you can't keep asking people to vote again until you get the result that you want nobody is saying please let us vote again until we get the result that we want the remain campaign or the revoke article 50 campaign or the people's vote campaign is simply saying we voted without knowing what was going on and we voted without knowing that one side was cheating breaking the law on an epic scale in factor in the eight million quid that still hasn't been properly accounted for from the other leave campaigning left with huge questions hanging over the legitimacy of the result and the future of British democracy all of us would once have lined up and United to say this isn't right I don't want to win if I don't win fair and square the the the employment of the word British as an adjective that includes value judgments is dangerous in my view because being British doesn't make you better than anybody else not per se it's your behavior that makes you better than somebody else and a country I don't know can't really be construed as behaving so how how have we ended out that's the question how have we ended up as a country where we can find out that the biggest vote in our history was won by cheats and we know all up in arms because I genuinely believe if the England cricket team were found to have tampered with the ball we would be too ashamed to keep the ashes I genuinely believe that maybe I'm horribly naive it's my Enid Blyton upbringing coming to the fore but it's kind of think other countries might be the closest I overcome to mild racism this Oh get your notebooks out you sort of think what other countries might do that but we just wouldn't we would never tamper with the ball well vote leave tampered with the ball should they be allowed to keep the ashes oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three maths in Southgate I got there in the end man I think that's my first cricket analogy but my goodness me as his Zynga or possibly a googly what would you like to say to the producer but I'm only picking up about one word in three the truck will try and sort out momentarily toby is in Chelsea Toby um if we won the ashes and were found to have tampered with the ball we'd give them back and play again wouldn't we I listened it's really it's funny just had come straight into cricket because my father was a York Sherman at ten years old I was at the crease I'd take taken a ball my father was the umpire first second ball and I was convinced I was going to go in and make 50 even at that age and it clipped the side of my bat and I knew it and it was beautifully caught and this is these are 10 year olds yes so it was an amazing moment and my father looked at me because I hadn't walked and he said Toby were you out I said no daddy this is possibly a slightly niche example of moral integrity and paternal intervention but I feel every syllable of what you described I could almost have been there myself and honestly because I didn't want to go and you know what it's like Ingrid Lodge for me a couple of years later and the umpire was a mr. Walker oddly and you'll indulge me for a moment oh because I didn't clip it I swear to this day I never clipped it and I wasn't I wasn't a very good batsman and horford Lodge had this bowler who just did these enormous full tosses and for the first time in my life I was within a realistic chance of hitting a bunch of boundaries I swung at about the second one missed it completely the wicket keeper shattered how's that and mr. Walker gave me out and anyway that's absolutely irrelevant to the conversation of sport and by the way my father then in a racist finger and of course I walked yes but later he he had a teammate told me he said won the ball was brilliant you didn't you didn't walk the cat was brilliant you didn't but this is what sport is about it's it's all about playing within the rules and if you win within the rules fantastic by the way I became a tennis player not a bad tennis player but then I've been a very good tennis coach and I've never cheated in anything since and this is I've said already it's the closest I'll ever come to mild zone a phobia or racism think I am guilty of that offense but but I'd the way I was raised and and you know like you I presume we've went through the sort of private school system where much is made of the playing fields of England and all that sort of thing I didn't I racks and the meat OB so my parents would go refund my lucky my mother my mother worked for the BBC whose claims with the elocution unit but it is a British thing there's a sense of fair play this maybe is what we've used to cover up some of our crimes around the world through history but we are supposed to be better than everybody else we're supposed to be more possessed of integrity more concerned with fair play more averse to cheating I I except I'm possibly horribly naive but I'd rather be hard I don't think you're naive it spoils everything yes it's cheating spoils everything but our culture whether it's in the corporation and I work in a lot of these big corporations on culture cage or whether it's across the country and our politicians who are supposed to be setting examples and as you you know often talk about in your show you know politicians just stealing you know couple of quid for their pond or well their duck or whatever it is whatever you do because that would make us as bad as them but they are currently spitting at any notion of transparent democracy they're laughing are people who felt that it's not worth winning if you don't win fairly and they are I'm afraid denigrating the example of English men and women through the ages who like Toby's father would never countenance cheating vote leave cheated not only did they cheat they denied that they had cheated up until the point at which they thought brexit would have been hauled over the line it may be a coincidence that they rolled over and put their hands up to mix my metaphors on March the 29th it may not be a coincidence either way they rolled over on the day they thought that their mission would be accomplished a mission achieved by cheating if we want the ashes and were found to have tampered with the ball I as an Englishman would want England to give back the urn I'd want them to play the match again and I'd want a promise from every player on my team that this time we will not cheat someone's telling me that we did something with boiled sweets at Trent Bridge in the 1970s or 80s which highlights two things number one my knowledge of cricket is not encyclopedia cand number two possibly my perception of the Englishman at the crease is a little naive or idealistic but haven't look at the people on the other side of the argument and tell me who the folk a tree 'its are the pantomime thoughts the people who would ordinarily appeal to the example of English history English tradition as a fine sort of paragon of virtue that's the point isn't it we I feel a bit stupid saying this to you but but I realize looking at this landscape of deception and lies I realize I did grow up thinking Britain was a paragon of virtue not in a way that meant the rest of the world would tug therefore Locke and bowed down to give us trade deals they wouldn't give to any other country punching at the same economic weight but just because oh that's what we were all taught isn't it what are we going to teach our children cheats do prosper oh and always destroy the evidence it's a fast time and here's the line that would once have stopped the traffic and United us in our disapproval and disgust but doesn't anymore because yes you guessed it breaks it we found that vote leaf broke the electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event serious offenses such as these undermine public confidence in our system and it is vital therefore that they are properly investigated and sanctioned we will never know whether it was the mother of all coincidences that vote leave folded on March the 29th hung on really for as long as they could before concluding inexorably that we weren't going to leave on March the 29th imagine if we had and then they withdrew their appeal after after the urn and course my cricket analogy has been picked apart by all comers I know the arm stays at Lourdes even if the Aussies win it or I am not completely stupid I've been in the long ring but spoils my analogy slightly you have to have the image of giving them back we give the ashes back it's surrender them in shame having discovered that we cheated and of course the point is and this is really crucial right only takes one player to have cheated you didn't see when you voted leave a lot of people say how could I know that they didn't influence my votes they didn't do this they didn't do that nothing about Facebook and I'm not going to argue with you but don't ask me how it works ask the people that spend tens of thousands of pounds of money illegally how it works ask yourself why 8 million quid about its way into levy you coffers from sources that are still unclear don't ask me how it works this spending of this money this dark money on dark arts as the people that spend it because I'll tell you something for nothing if it didn't work they wouldn't spend it so there we are how have we become a country where cheats prosper and where the other 10 members of the team to lodge this analogy to breaking point the other 10 member or not even that you found out that the captain cheated how do you feel was the wicketkeeper you find out the captain cheated vote leave cheated they managed cleverly one thing that no one can accuse them of is not being clever at this kind of subterfuge and shenanigans they very cleverly managed to nip this story in the bud when it first came out by insisting that it wasn't true and vowing to appeal it was a little like jonathan Aitken when he failed to take on the Guardian in that infamous libel case and then on March the 29th they roll over so if the captain cheated would you still want your winners medal Oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three especially when you step out of the world of sport at least in sport you can describe the prize you still don't know what you think you won you still can't describe this prize except in the most meaningless a nebulous of terms but it turns out you only won after the captain cheated I'm not even saying because the captain cheated I think it's clear but because works in that sentence but let's for the benefit of all doubt remove it let's not say that but but your team won because the captain cheated let's just say that your team won after the captain cheated would you still want your winners medal but would you want to play again so the next time your victory would be pure are made is in Walthamstow I made what would you like to say risking as a society war deluge self-delusion yeah by thinking that cheating doesn't happen to – well one main example comes to mind there's a program on TV where they select somebody to go work for an entrepreneur and I could remember there was one instance where the guy undermined one of the competitors to get to be able to be the leader on the activity and then subsequently won that competition and the entrepreneur actually said oh you know I like that so I mean there's undermining and then there's breaking the law way I mean whether it's the laws of the game you can you can definitely convention you can swim against the tide you can be a little bit fly but but here is a law written down here is the body charged with enforcing that law enforcing it here is what they say about vote leave they broke electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event I'm not fully ofay with the program you described but I'm pretty sure that the rules on The Apprentice are set out by Alan sugar not Parliament and if they broke the rules set out by Alan sugar Alan sugar would come down on them like a ton of bricks yeah I think the example please okay so up and down the cup we're gonna use quickly the metaphor I just had sex with your last ball so I do better this I don't mind that you know it's your six up and down the country there are ECB qualified coaches that tell kids not to walk unless the umpire gives it so you know the idea that the idea that there are laws in place yes I completely get that completely agree with that but I think as a society I think with but again forgive me it should just be a fall to the boundary just on the leg side but we have an umpire so you can tell the batsman not to walk and that you're encouraging him to be dishonorable but if the umpire puts his finger up and the batsman stays at the crease playing and nobody objects then your analogy with vote leave works but nobody who's actually who's actually charged these people with electoral fraud nobody the electrician no but they haven't actually what they they final 60 60 K we should go punitive do I think it's the biggest Electoral Commission final certainly among the biggest Electoral Commission finds has ever been issued which is in a sentence what's the point you're making everybody cheats don't get your knickers in a twist James the point the point I'm making James is that on prime-time radios we shouldn't we shouldn't delude ourselves that Britain is somehow more than everywhere this is very rare moment where I can't actually so it will come over all all jumbled and I can say no you're probably right but it's not a delusion we could fix this and if we if we win by cheating we feel soiled I do as an individual you perhaps don't I don't know if that's what you're telling me how do you feel so when I'm playing Fifa with my mate and I've bust him for cheating and he water off a duck's back cool as a cucumber doesn't and refuses by the way to review our record of results as well which goes back over 20 years if that was me I'd feel utterly utterly awful the point I'm trying to make is that sometimes you can do something about it sometimes you just have to move on and get on with it that's an interesting point and maybe I will but not just yet it's and 41 no three four five six oh six oh nine seven three two cheats never prosper we teach our children and today we learned that they do not only that and it breaks my heart to say this I'm afraid that sheets were facilitated hugely by the BBC's treatment of the original story when the Electoral Commission's findings were released and and of course that speaks to the much much bigger picture of this weird delusion still gripping the nation very good profile of me in The Guardian today if you want a quick explainer of how we ended up in the mess that we're in and it does I'm afraid fall to journalism much more than politics and it continues to fall to journalism it doesn't matter what side it is I all my Electoral Commission that's all we've got it's the only referee we've got they've shown the vote leave a red card but the crowd the crowd want them to play on nails in poor matter beautiful part of the world really beautiful part of the world what would you like to say now very well anymore I was just thinking the fact that you know as a country we're just so used to tribalism aren't we yes you know you've got the creek it's just all to be what's the rugby with a slightly more open car but you know probably shouldn't have phoned in to use sport as the basis of is it well I think it does matter I know that we agree what do you mean is the more you've got the easier it is to get away with absolutely and plus you know like you say about your mate and FIFA and stuff yes that's you know it's just the gay minute your mate isn't cheating James he learnt tricks that are in the game which makes him a better player than you you sound like a sore loser obviously so there is the cause that that point of view is over need a better analogy this is cheating this is breaking the rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy and you know what we haven't even done yet on the Dahle Street angle but Downing Street knew because somebody very senior in the vote leave campaign is on the inner circle of Teresa my staff he's the fella that helps in chamois Sammy still surprises me I'm beginning to think I'm the least cynical person in the in the country now I used to think I was the most cynical I genuinely do trust in institutions I genuinely do think that politicians like Nadine Doris Denny great our Democratic history we shouldn't have people in Parliament who aren't bright enough to look after their constituents and we shouldn't have people in Parliament who've cheated on the biggest it's not the biggest actually the 1992 election had a bigger turnout but the idea that Govan Johnson led the cheats and now lead the bookies on who could be next prime minister explain that to me nil again it's Dan just thinking because they've got nothing to lose something James I mean if we crash out oh well so that might mean now for the rest of us oh dear Lord you know it's just the game innit a lot of reasons for the little people they all like taxes do you think rules like taxes are for the little people of course they are well then I'm proud to be a little person and find a way out of your pay hey as you know you know you pay hey whatever yeah you know you can't just decide suddenly I think no no if you haven't got gazillions of pounds in the bank you can't ieave today am i the least cynical person in the country this idea that it really should be a big deal we need to pin down precisely what that Downing Street connection is as well the former chair of vote leave gives a list you at the three chairs if memory serves her Govind Johnson has sidestepped calls to apologise for the campaign breaking electoral law she told Andrew Marr yesterday that the brakes at campaigns legal advice ruled their activities compliant but regulators found otherwise at a later date she added that vote leave had been outspent by remain and that it had and I quote destroyed some of the evidential bases people are asking for so there's gays list you are saying but but our people said we weren't breaking the law I'd be brilliant wouldn't it if you turned up in court you were being prosecuted for theft and he said no but my mum said it wasn't theft or even if he said I brought my own quasi police officer I've brought my own law compliance officer with me and they insist it wasn't theft I didn't punch him Your Honor he ran into my fist unfortunately we've destroyed all the evidence that would support our position that's vote leave how can you not feel soiled if you're captain cheated even if you are the most upright decent player in the history of the game your captains cheated give the cut back play the game again what would you call somebody who claims that his Christianity compels him to object to women who've been raped being offered abortions and yet who tweets supportively a far-right German politician whose own churches in Germany have essentially argued that their politics is incompatible with Christianity let me run that by you once again variety of Christian leaders in Germany from from both sides the Protestant and the Catholic have explained how they consider membership of the so called AFD as being incompatible with Christianity the AFD get tweeted approvingly by an increasingly far-right British politician who simultaneously claims that his quotes Christianity and quotes compels him to believe that victims of rape should not be allowed abortions I'll tell you what you call him Jacob Riis more it's 1052 back to this question of cheating vote leave cheated on a I think on an unprecedented scale although I'm not a scholar of electoral commission fines and the simple question is when did we become a country where cheats prosper and where everything got so entrenched and then meshed in division and deceit and delusion that even if you ended up on the winning side and then found out that your leaders cheated you're still cheering Jonathan is in Harrogate Jonathan what would you like to say I think getting away with things that I do you know I think you're right I almost wish that that there was more of a shared responsibility I wish it wasn't all now being viewed through the through the lens of Breck's here I wish we could pointer do you see what I mean otherwise it just looks like well you know I'm a remainer therefore I'm furious about this cheating but if it was the other way around I'd be supremely relaxed about it you it's the double standards that are breaking everything and the absence of moral consistency absolutely I mean rugby playing schools so I think you know everyone remembers marathoners hand of God and all that sort of stuff on the tea really and all that and we're as English well as English supporters or whatever we are think we're beyond that but just go to a normal Premier League or a championship game and the weekends and then look at driving in the box and how many players are doing that these days to try and get the penalty because it's the end result that is the necessary it is the thing that that causes people to do the necessary evil as they see it you know I talk a lot about I think I may even have invented the word football if occation but I could be wrong about that it certainly works doesn't it but even when I was coining the phrase I didn't really think it was reaching so deeply into the national psyche but it is now breaks it in particular not party politics oddly because they're even more divided than the country now the individual parties but breaks it in particular and III for me the leaf side are almost the exclusive recipients of this criticism it doesn't matter what the facts are it doesn't matter what the moral landscape looks like our side can do whatever the hell they want and we will cheer them to the rafters while booing the other side even if they play by the rules and we don't and that again I'm comfortable with this but I'm speaking from the heart that's um eightish I think that's right there was always the right or wrong too much blue edges remember the Aussie bursting into tears the Aussie captain or vice captain bursting into tears a couple of summers ago who was it Steve Smith wasn't it yeah that is how vote leaves should look today that's how Boris Johnson and Michael Gove should look today unless they want to claim that somehow the three people in charge of the campaign had nothing to do with all no knowledge of the cheating in which case you'd be looking for some sort of corporate governance finding it'd be like be like Island sugar claiming he's got nothing to do with what goes on an Amstrad you know taking going back to the football game you know if you get tapped on the score in the penalty area you know if the pundits say well he got tapped on the foot so he goes down to get the penalty well it when I in my day you know I'm talking yeah I'm slightly older than you then I think even then back to my day at school and we played rugby we played it I tell you what Jonathan I wonder if we're now guilty of what we normally criticize the other side for we're now indulging in a sort of exceptionalism are we I imagine if you were listening to this in Ireland at the moment the idea that I with a name like O'Brien I'm upholding England or Britain as a fine paragon of historical international virtue that an individual and I'm gonna stop saying British Fairplay a British sense of fair play because in a way that's a weapon that's been wielded by the crooks and the criminals rather than by the actual upholders and advocates of fair play which once again reminds us exactly what dr. Johnson meant when describe patriotism as the last refuge of a scoundrel there is no such thing as a British sense of fair play please ignore all of my appeals to it prior to this point there is fair play and there is unfair play and wherever you were born or grew up or were educated should not be the determining factor that's about your conscience that's about morality and vote leave cheated if you're cool with that your conscience is malfunctioning oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three if you think you can construct a defense of your cheating leaders Simon's in Grimsby Simon what would you like to say one in James I honestly think that the amount of scandals that have happened in the previous years with the expenses scandal and the sex Peterffy pedophile ring and everything else that has gone on in the years past I think people are that used to learning about him now they're not shocked anymore so everything about this isn't really a big deal too many people anymore you know because it's been lines I think you're right I think you're right but I'm still sure the day we stopped being shot the day we all stopped being short is that they evil triumphs isn't it people just people complain about it well nothing ever goes in prison after the so-called expenses scandal but you know I Michael Gove wife was was tweeting something the other day about my Karma and whether it was all the remain voters were supposed to have gone to Waitrose or something like that and someone pointed out the long list of things that they claimed for on expenses from a home workshop from a home furnishing shop owned by David Cameron's mother-in-law a thing or something ridiculous like that and you sort of think well if yeah you get you get busted for that for the flipping of the houses for all of the appalling abuses rather than offenses that went on under that and and all of those people walked away scot-free why on earth would they approach the referendum thinking well we better play by the rules this time well I mean if you've got politicians looking at ya and lying to your face yeah are we I don't know you can call out any part democracy I just don't get how you can call it no not Delilah but then but then what is the I mean is it football because I know what it's like to support a football team I've always been cursed with supporting largely unsuccessful team since the 1980s when Nottingham Forest were in their pomp but I can't quite imagine that level of blind partisanship that you'd need to look at politics and think as long as my fellow wins I don't care if he cheats I can't get I can't quite get that sorry we had to be honest Revere I really don't think that you've got used to being able to use all the words that they can and they never run so a proper question you know I think they've got that used to get in a way with so more and then just kind of carry on and then you push and push and push and what Steve banning of course advises these people to do presumably is to ignore the boundaries altogether there are no boundaries look at Donald Trump let's talk about this for a little longer partly because nobody else will and I've said this to you a few times the the media's corruption is accidental largely there isn't some secret cabal of string-pulling plutocrats trying to necessarily influence the future of the country to the detriment of the population but to the benefit of string-pulling plutocrats a lot of it happens by accident you know as I said she last week if Boris Johnson had arrived in Brussels as the Daily Telegraph's correspondent shortly after being dismissed from The Times for making up a quote from his own Godfather that's the point the last caller made isn't it we've just got so used to it now this this this this moral dereliction that is so commonplace in public life and then way they castigated Gordon Brown who who was I would say decent to the point of dullness Gordon Brown a castigating pulled him to pieces hauled him over the coals Boris Johnson second job in journalism came as a result of having been fired from his first one for making a quote up from his own Godfather and he's been doing it ever since to his wives to his employers to his readers to his voters lie off the lie off the lie off the lie where is he now our hot favourite to be the next leader of the Tory Party pip-pip but he was chairman of this campaign that's been found to have cheated yeah well suck it up so where is Fair Play in the context of brexit where is probity integrity morality honesty truth neither side has a monopoly on it what we missed was a referee isn't it it's all very well talking about the football if ocation of everything we don't just need a referee we need VAR if we had a referee and VAR they'd call the whole thing off makers play again well they might even have forfeited the result actually by cheating but we don't we've got a prime minister inhabiting a Downing Street where some of the people integral to the vote leave campaign are now working so the Prime Minister has people associated with cheating and the breaching of electoral law on the actual payroll it's possible I'm going bonkers as I survey this carnage is political chaos and think it's quite clear to see the most abject demonstrations of political and moral corruption will be joined hopefully by Sheamus only before the end of the program because he has been completely vindicated how many calls did he get from the BBC yesterday to appear on their flagship political programmes zero how many calls did Jesus Stewart get a chair of an organisation found to have breached electoral law well at least one because she was on the telly didn't quite work did it that needed to say 47 it's incredible and your remember Shamir was outed against his will to the endangering of himself and and and some of his family members by his former partner his former boyfriend who is still on the payroll at Downing Street and it was all done to discredit and undermine the allegations that on Friday vote leave stopped fighting this is just huge if I've done anything over the last few years it's I've discovered this really mysterious ability to trust my instincts rather than doing what I've done throughout my career which is to follow I'm not suggesting I lead don't there's anyone behind me but it's incredibly liberating you know like the little boy in the crowd with the naked Emperor parading past while all the grown-ups insist that he's wearing beautiful robes you trust your instincts that's why you end up with no or very few political heroes you end up politically homeless you you you vote for the least bad of a bad lot I guess ultimately or you vote despite the leader of the party for your constituency MP but on this one I know that this is huge and I know that you would agree with me at almost any other point in British history on an electoral exercise of this scale however you vote it if it turned out that the winners cheated you'd want to do it again but breaks it's broken something that I made the mistake in the last hour of describing in a sense that made it fundamentally British I completely withdraw that honesty integrity decency Fairplay these are human attributes that are only some humans have and the humans who don't have any humans who do not care about anything except short-term success short-term approval regardless of truth the politicians who know that such is their toxic brand of populist deceitful rhetoric though they could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue without losing a single vote people who understand that are in the ascendancy and Jacob Riis Morgan Boris Johnson are both reported to have broken bread with the mastermind of Donald Trump's election campaign in recent months make of that what you will today you have Jacob Riis mug on Twitter approving of the leader of the AFD an organization so fundamentally at odds with basic human decency that both Catholic and Protestant leaders in Germany have said it's impossible to support that party's policies while considering yourself a Christian won't give won't give Jacob any sleepless nights I don't imagine and if it does of course nanny will be a hand with an oval team chris is in Lancaster Chris what would you like to say hi I absolutely agree with you relationship program before cuts in the north and not in the Lord National Registry agree with what you're saying I'm a bit like the Emperor in the crowds I've been show until you've got no clothes on quite a while to be honest and we didn't know they cheated on this scale did ya know they cheated from the beginning I mean I told you guy that I was on the phone now at all you know I said I voted in because I didn't know what I was voting out for that's no idea it was like bought in and when you know unless you're into politics I didn't really know what was in to be honest but I just knew how I lived was okay and you know it's better than a lot of place in the world and then the next thing was there's a table here with the tablecloth on would you like to vote for this no because I thought it is and I work for the NHS 36 years and you know a banner on a bus I've seen a thousand times saying the NHS is going to get this so we just laughed out loud no one believes that bus Chris ma you must keep up the man who ran the campaign thinks it was by far the most important element of the entire campaign but nobody who voted leave did so because they believe the bus they all knew it wasn't true you know something the warden never to be seen again are they well then I wish you were right they all be seen again Michael Gove and Boris Jones you just said Michael Gove in our own bulletin buttonholed outside his house and not even asked about it if what's the equivalent this would be like the chairman of a listed company not being asked about the fact that their balance sheet has turned out to be our Tilly inflated utterly misrepresented they've gone to shareholders and said well we made X billion pounds last year and it turns out they didn't and the no one would be questioning the chief executive it's quite incredible actually yeah I agree thought stopping the wards and then came up what I was gonna say come out the other side and was given great jobs you know and I'm thinking how can that be because you know if I did something wrong with NHS that would be the end of it you know there'd be an investigation that would be it but he can go out through the woods hide for BEC come up the other side and give him jobs you just stand up for work today and say do you know until I became a nurse I had no idea I had no idea how important was for treating patients and they pat you on the back and give you the Dominic rob award for employee of the month yeah actually you know and you know it's just like it's been and I don't think you borrow me at all because I think people are just greedy there is no morals there's no truth and from the very beginning we've just been duped I mean I as I say I bought it in because I didn't know what out was a clue but I'm no problem with anybody who bought it out because they may be more informed than me you know they may have had more information having voted for out you know I'm going along with it well I thought by now we all would be and yet it just keeps queuing up and now this this day I have to nonsense about what WTO times the only thing that allows the people who've been wrong about everything to pretend that they haven't been wrong about everything is by backing the thing that is the hardest to specify the only thing left on the table that doesn't actually need to be described is crashing out with no deal so don't they line up they queue to support the idea of crashing out with no deal because it's the only thing that allows them not to answer the questions that they should be answering given a little bit of a little bit of power and now they've got each pieces groups got a little bit of power and it's gone to the head then you're describing it I think that this the people who've had all the power all along and then arguably during the post-war period they've seen some of that power eroded they hate the welfare state they hate the NHS because it means that decent ordinary people have got access to health care and education and support when times are hard we don't have to doff our cap and tug off all up to the lord of the manor because we haven't got a job with him we'll starve they hate it they hate from Leeds I appreciate in a context of the Roses this isn't gonna endear me to you but in the context of the north/south divide please don't chop me off as a as a member of the this located although I need to remind you Chris this is a national radio station so spread the word please in Lancaster well we don't we don't get and we don't get the information we just don't get it you know it's like when you rely on the BBC and the babies yesterday had the chera vote leave one of the chair of vote leave on there and essentially just sort of eased her passage towards simultaneously saying oh well of course we've destroyed all the evidence and well we didn't do anything wrong in that case thank you I look forward to next call Hillary is in st. Albans Hillary what the flip is going on I have absolutely no idea but I'm so pleased that you're airing this issue because it's something that is completely flummoxed me I don't understand why when they've been shown to be guilty all the sorts of issues around the way the election was run and I'm told but they can't rerun it they can't cancel the result and rerun it because it wasn't binding and yet all the time we hear politicians saying politically that's not as what's that word reconcile it's not as irreconcilable as you think that the point was that David Cameron insisted politically that they would enact the result whatever it was and then legally or technically it is not binding which means when you go to court and say this is a breach of the law therefore you should call it off the court can respond by saying well yes it is a breach of the law but you can't call off something that isn't binding and it's binding because David Cameron says it was but David Cameron's statements are not a legally binding contribution to the public discourse so I do I understand your confusion and your unhappiness but it to be really pedantic about it it's logical what's happening yeah well I get that I know what the politicians are saying to our series you know it was it was a level playing field when it wasn't so I can't understand why there isn't more people in Parliament saying but the vote was gossiped by cheating no no I have relatives who's never been involved in politics though I mean literally as board kids as anything when anything to do they voted because they always felt they should vote but always along specific lines of you know this is how we've always voted and we're not really interested in what else is going on stand up in arms they actually came to the March last week people have never marched before in their life from dorset and somerset some goodness sakes going we want another vote because it wasn't done sailing you know we believe strongly in right and wrong so you talking about it and actually airing it it's even very very short of dissenting voices today on the switchboards and and on the texts and the emails because i think however embedded you are in the belief that the european union is somehow an enemy of our interests position i furiously dispute and disagree with but however embedded you are in that idea you're probably not gonna ring up a radio station and say i I'm cool with cheese I'm glad that my leaders cheated because somewhere deep inside everybody has a apart from actual sociopaths everybody has a conscience don't they deep inside they know they don't want to be winning through cheating it's not worth winning at all if you can only win through cheating or am i sounding very naive again I don't know it's really disturbing me about this is it feels like we've lifted a lid where people whose voices would normally only be heard in in quiet places so you able to say very loudly incredibly racist things which I increased attacks on you know people from different cultures we have all sorts of things coming out of the ground that I never saw I mean I'm 62 I never thought I would see in this country and I have you know friends European countries going we don't understand what's going on we've always looked to the UK and to British people as as people who have got lots of understanding lots of focus lots of respect we don't understand what you're doing and you've lost your credibility pop quiz nuggets actually that comes in useful quite often when when we talk of the mother of all Parliament's it doesn't actually describe the building in Westminster it describes this country this country is known I mean of course now someone's gonna bring me and say yeah he's known as the mother of all Parliament's chased by only by you Locke none of us call it that actually historically you're wrong this is the mother of all Parliament's Great Britain is the mother of all Parliament's because it up holds the values and the rules and the ideas that vote leave have I'm afraid you're related all over and the two men at the head of that organization are now vying for Downing Street and my profession just waving them by sort of things I'm getting by way of explanations for how you can be comfortable profiting from corruption or why you're cool with the idea that she's do prosper the the remain campaign spent more than the leave campaign it's not strictly true the government spent money on remaining on encouraging people to vote to remain but that's what you elect government to do to spend money in what they consider to be the best interest of the population in many ways is the fundamental definition of democracy you elect politicians to spend public money raised by taxation on what they consider to be in the national interest there's a very strong case to be made for saying that spending money on a referendum such a boneheaded binary referendum was a dereliction of David Cameron's democratic duty but there are very few things behind which the country is united at the moment I think the utter uselessness of David Cameron is pretty close to being one of the few things on which we can all agree but once he had called that ludicrous referendum that's not his fault by the way that that one side cheated but once he'd called it it was his democratic duty to spend public money raised through taxation on what he is the elected prime minister or the leader of an elected government believed to be the best interest of the country so you have to Park that I'm afraid even though it has a patina of logic to it and also if if only spent more money on you than you on something that we were both seeking to achieve it doesn't in any way excuse you if your money was stolen do you see what I mean if you cheated you're a cheat doesn't matter whether you come first second or third you're a cheat when did we become a country that promotes cheats and a lot of you are telling me we always have been which I'm I'm sort of lacking the psychic energy to argue with today I'm squeezing a couple of more calls before half past 11:00 then we'll move on oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three is a slight flavor of consensus hanging over this issue it may be because for once we are all agreed levers remain errs somewhere in between us that cheats should not prosper but they have and I want to know why against that backdrop it's acceptable for the Prime Minister to contemplate putting a vote to Parliament for the fourth time but not acceptable for the same Prime Minister to contemplate putting a vote to the people for the second time in this case the first time without cheating and with the necessary information and without an awful lot of lies and hot air that propelled leave over the line in June of 2016 that's the bit I just don't get as I said sorry to bang on about it but my book asks at the beginning and the end of the brexit chapter that I'm supposed to be updating but can't because the blinking target keeps moving every time I get my bow and arrow out I still don't know what they think they want first line and last line I think it wasn't the original anyway I might have changed it in the second draft what did you win sovereignty control well we know that's not true and now it turns out that you actually won by cheating how can that be satisfactory to somebody possessed of a moral compass marks in love promote what would you like to say a lot of people on the other side or think as regards the overspending that the end justifies the means I'm not interested today you say that the quite a bit about the you spend money on this famous leaflet and I think a lot of people on beliefs I do think well you know they had all the resources and there's four words I'm pretty much if we shall bend the rules a bit has been a bit more I mean also I think that you know people in the Leeside at what and now remains I think people are was a lot more passion on the leave side during the campaign remain was very and a lot of people I think voters remain at that point were kind of balmy night I was thrashing about it but not as passionate as I am now you get passionate about the status quo it's very hard to do promises but I'm promising you unicorns I'm promising you wealth I'm promising you three hundred and fifty million quid for the NHS I'm promising you control that I got not aware that it had been taken away but if you tell me it's been taken away now you're promising to get it back you're my man well I think I think also that you if you stopped banding about words that have actually quite quite nebulous but have quite different meanings to different people's freedom and independence for instance once you start injecting those into the debate then you know the whole game changes I mean stops rationality go straight out of the window and you know they starting about independence Independence Day it's like well coming back on that was like we already independent we're gonna be able to make our own rules and do our own trading agreements say people who now banners saying WTO now without Ryloth right chuckle and on it goes it ever inflated and nail WTO or crashing over no deal offers them yet another opportunity to camouflage the fact that they don't know what they're talking about and everything they said would happen hasn't happened culminating in for me though that the crucible of this whole con which is the fact that they actually cheated what is the point of rules laws no less set by Parliament if you can win a nation changing vote having broken them and walk away with a slap on the wrist a 61 thousand pound fine and you know what happened when the Electoral Commission said that they wanted more robust powers to police these things senior conservatives queued up to say that would be ridiculous you'd have to ask them why mark thank you Bluff brought to seven oak stands there dan what's going on hello Jane just great to speak to you especially in the context I've just read your book and imagine just imagine if the BBC was littered with journalists of your caliber what a different situation we be in now but I'm not sure that's true but I'll take it to the bank in the car you really just finished it good can I ask you a question as if no one else is listening yeah does it still work because the paper backs out in June and I can't think of it she's gonna sound incredibly arrogant it's not as arrogant as it sounds like when I say I can't think of anything I can improve I don't mean that it's perfect I mean I don't think I think it still stands up to the current landscape it does it does I read it on Kindle yes I the only thing you could do I suppose is bringing out a new edition that brings on some of the conversations that you've had published yeah I'll ask for a sequel that's not for an update yeah absolutely anyway where were we what did you ring in for okay so I called in because I want to let you know that I work for a company what takes me all around Europe yeah I can't say who it is because I forget the fact for expressing in a political opinion but I vaguely find myself in meeting rooms with people from Netherlands Germany into the Spain Switzerland et cetera and apart from the fact that they're all becoming semi obsessed with bricks in a kind of soap opera kind of way and find it very very funny especially after Whitby last week when I was in a meeting when they hurtle comments voted absolutely everything that I know they found their houses hilarious apart from that in the context of what you've been talking about today fair playing Britishness bit what they all unanimously I can't believe in other countries and there they remember there are people that are born and bred in those discs and countries is the fact that we the British citizens I have allowed ourselves to be lied to so incredibly and and not doing anything about it so in that context of what you say another one about Fair Play they are absolutely gobsmacked so hang on a minute hell how have you tolerated this more importantly why are those people in prison or something but why are they not been some significant consequences about the fact that you've been lied to so dramatically do you have an answer for them because at the moment I don't know I don't have an answer for them and after we've had the usual jokes that start the meeting about how what then has you going with brexit now laughter but that's the kind of thing that they absolutely amazed about mess it's a place with you I said I think it's just you've accepted it culturally now millions of us haven't the problem is the journalism the journalism reflects a country that doesn't care about this where is actually the country does care and you know what in the in the spirit of building bridges and content for the combine compression for the cond I've revoked leave every leave voter I know cares about this sort of thing they might not yet be ready to call for a second referendum but they care about corruption and electoral law being broken absolutely but I've got a very good friend who gets his news from the mail online know at the end of the day if that is your source of what is going on in the world of what's occurred in your country in your community in your society is that is your source every single day of your life and guess what is no surprise that you're going to come up with absolute rubbish about bendy bananas and thrillers even the impounds it to the you every week is your source that is how you find out about what no one saw this coming I'm late for the news don't thank you for the kind words I gave you a two-minute extension seeing as I prevailed upon your publishing advice and after that I'm delighted to be joined by Seamus Anne The Whistleblower with regards to vote leaves breaking of electoral law who was told variously that his whistle was broken that his whistle was invisible that his whistle was worthless and of course late on Friday his whistle turned out to have been bang on the money all along we'll find out how he's feeling one of the few corners of the British media where we will be hearing more about a story that paints the two men currently with lab brookes of five to one to be the next prime minister or having presided over an organization that and do you know what i'm gonna ruffle my papers so that i get the quote exactly right on this one it is the organization that broke the electoral rules set out by parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event and i'll say it again if i told you three years ago that the two frontrunners with Ladbrokes to be our next prime minister would have achieved that role shortly after three days after having been found to be heading up an organization that broke the electoral rules set out by parliament to ensure fairness confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event you quite understandably would have laughed in my face but that's where we are embrace it britain cheat and prosper for now Theo what's going on I just want to focus on in those indexes votes what Parliament would be prepared to agree to in order to pass Teresa maze would call agreement firstly the customs union option put forward by Ken Clark now that has labour support at the moment it doesn't have SNP support and then another option coming up on the rails is the Norway option put forward by Nick Bowles a Conservative MP which includes a single market access but of course drops the right of any future to government to control freedom of movement therefore it doesn't have the support of labour at this time but it does now have a SNP support they're going to get behind it now from what I'm hearing James cabinet somewhere is going to be absolutely crucial because treasom a at that point is going to have to make a decision if one of those options passes about whether to adopt it as government policy Jacob Riis mark this morning gave Chris Grayling an Android from the two biggest levers in the cabinet to pass effectively saying that we've now gone beyond the point of resignations in other words as chairman of the ERG the European research group if you don't want to resign that's okay with us of course there are members of the ERG who won't be happy about it but that's a problem for mr. Reece mark and of course Michel Barnier has said chief president negotiated for the European Union has said that they would accept a customs union within 48 hours that would allow us to leave we are not made the 22nd if we still wanted to without a lengthy extension just one other point very quickly to nation is that the core groups is legally binding the political declaration to which a customs union would fit into isn't but there is a link in the withdrawal agreement which means that any future conservative leader cannot simply drop a customs union option for instance in the political declaration without completely unpicking the withdrawal agreement who wrote that clause I know where you're going with it so just to be clearer this would have been designed originally to prevent a British prime minister from subsequently going further with regard to integration than the original agreement allowed but of course if it is a safeguard against going further it would also operate as a safeguard against diluting or retreating from what was originally agreed which means it must have been negotiated by a former Secretary of State for leaving the European Union step forward which means it must have been negotiated by either David Davis or Dominic Rob working on the principle that David Davis did absolutely nothing in his two years in the job on 130 grand a year or there abouts I'm gonna say that domine Rob wrote this as a plan to stop yes the opposite of what it will now stop exactly so Dominic Rob would bind and I get a lollipop yes sticker and a badge John Darley Rob basically brought forward this clause into the withdrawal agreement which means that if treason a adopts a customs union as the political declaration and we leave on May the 22nd that is what it will be at the end of the transition period unless of course we want to try and rip up withdrawal agreement which has been proposed by it was a bit Bob Stuart the MP down in Beckenham and a couple of conservative others that we just simply withdraw from an international treaty this is the nuclear option of course who would have bearings on how this country to eat internationally of course um I'm confused now I've kind of kept across everything as you know with a degree of psyche so some understanding he so Rob no I understand me I mean there's been big surprise there that dog bites man isn't it Rob makes a fool of himself in public but it doesn't seem to matter I think he's still eight to one at the moment in there piranhas and the riders but that so how many votes are they gonna be tonight do we know yet we don't know the speaker will select them at three o'clock but what was the thinking for what it's worth customs you you will be in there that came glass came clothes that came closest last time right fight makers like well there's no precedent because Switzerland and Norway are both in Schengen yes no so custom sure you would be simply that would and of course do away with the backstop in Northern Ireland because we're in the customs union because we'd have the same English and regulations but we Liam Fox couldn't travel around the world signing free-trade Hills that's reasonable he isn't anyway no but after we leave the European Union seven twenty thirty he couldn't put pen to paper right so he'd wasted those years and those rules of Union would be set entirely by the European Commission yes of which we would no longer have any representation si okay so that's number one that's number one then there's no way option we free movement back on the tape we moving back on the table and of course that's perfectly possible but labor unlikely to vote for it because that would be seen as reneging on the results in in June 2016 and the threat would then be Jeremy Corbyn and the choice would campaign in the future ten relation that you dare you are blocking brexit they're doing that already you've been changed I really did that at the weekend it's not very successfully if that's true again that's dog bites man James cleverly doing something not very successfully but carry on so there's no way then there's a second referendum on YES on the deal itself now that came Tereza maze deal versus within it that's that that would have to be determined to future date trees amazed the overseas remain of course there will be those who said that's not a fair choice in its remain versus remain so you should have leave on the option it becomes very complicated but then that fell by 27 votes last time how many Labour MPs voted against it 30 27 27 so you had members of their yard go you had ERG press officers tweeting team Sheamus which is of course Nord – yes Travis call Birds chief hey Jimmy's milk yes so that's another option rather though the orgy members were tweeting team Sheamus then the AFD but we are where we are carry on and then you've got a couple of amendments from John ban who's also a member of the ERG saying we should revert to you know deal wish a lot very unlike Sousa but that's not gonna choose them because but even if he did it Devon pass so this is just the bonkers wings still yeah oh he's got one in there as well a unicorn one which is that will reverse reverse what would you do if you were John Burke oh he'll pick customs I'd this is a percussions customs union Norway's second referendum and I will own so three and whichever one comes first out of those three goes head-to-head with the withdrawal agreement tomorrow not necessarily but there a thought for the punters I do this forum is here now she made that you follow all this and you work for the vote leave campaign is the only person left standing who's still got his head around all this stuff because the speaker's said if we if the government brings back a new vote it has to be different substantially different from the previous one yes and at the moment they separate that we draw an agreement from the political declaration and claimed that it was substantially vyas one that's what they did long family separates it even fro there's one option there's one option which they could provoke Parliament break up Parliament there just being told this morning that number 10 isn't prepared to involve the Queen so that's not gonna happen the other the only other option chains is that they use something called the web bill gave implementation the way it withdrawal agreement bill and the withdrawal agreement bill at second reading which is the first point of when Parliament gets to vote from any piece of legislation would become the meaningful vote but that's trickery and John Berko doesn't like trillion dollar so he may well block that as well and so actually MPs may have missed their last chance to vote on trees may still as it is they may have already got may have already gone at least they told them it was meaningful this time which was James cleverly as complain last time but what by the time we came to the complaining that no one had told him the second meaningful vote was meaningful yeah yeah bless him if you get to interview this lot any time soon oh you know I don't know why they're not returning my call really awesome if they kept the receipt when they gave a billion pounds to the DUP in return for a parliamentary majority is anybody in particularly locked eyes on question change cleverly gently yeah he seems to be charged with leading this claim that it's all Labour's fault of the EOG of scuppered brexit yeah at this point in proceedings so didn't make sure you go it works a toggle so you go back to our ghosts if you've kept the receipt you can you can swap your headphones for some new ones you can even get your money back so if they kept the receipt and the deed here blah Nigel Dodds last we said the remaining might be the answer did you see that yes and they quite like the DEP could still be persuaded James on a permanent customs union they could still be persuaded on the Kent our plan because what remembers the border in the Irish Sea of the United Kingdom and but that's brine oh no for that for the customers you know if I was a betting man customs union is the closest I think you might be right hey wait votes last time could they push you like the other people to watch out for who quite interesting the change group teak then because of course they opposed both customs union and Norway because they're gunning for a second referenda want to you know obviously change the course of what so anyone claiming that they know for sure what's gonna happen next is lying yeah that's that's why but the Amish was just laid out the clever money well done we'll hear from sure Massoni after this she returned to the first story that we covered this morning having had so much clarity I'm overdosing on clarity now about what's going to happen next is we haven't got a clue with regard to brakes it the vote leave organization coincidentally chose March the 29th to drop its appeal against a 61 thousand pound fine for electoral offences committed during the brexit referendum I say coincidentally because of course if things had gone according to plan we would have hauled brexit over the line on March the 29th and their fevered frenzy – very shrill denials of any wrongdoing up to and including that point would have sort of disappeared almost without trace what we do know though is that serious offenses such as those that vote leave were found to have committed do in the view of the electoral commission undermine public confidence in our system I don't think we'd have heard about these serious offences if it wasn't for my studio guest show mere sani is that fair comment do you think not picking up your roll you and Christopher widely between you brought me yeah I do but I think that's what's more or less the case yes so how did you feel on Friday a curious mixture of vindication and anything else um yeah it was incredibly vindicating of course and I think both mean cows of calc a lot as it was sort of screaming down the phone saying look they've done it again they've you know put another nail in their coffin but I think I'm good with my vindication for me it's not really my priority no I know what I want my my for me vindication really is a public inquiry investigations and people being held to account and that is we're now at the the end of the beginning drones and the beginning of the NBA you hope I mean do you have any confidence that things will be taken forever the electoral comfort as you know the Electoral Commission have said that um it's vital that they are properly investigated and sanctioned yes intellectual commissions absolutely right in saying that I think when it comes to the very sort of core values that we hold as as as Democrats as progressives or even as conservatives living in a country like Britain the democracy is at the core of all of our values and I think when we have such a serious case of the perversion of that democracy by the people who are in line to become our leaders five-to-one logo quite it's imperative that there are significant investigations but we already know that when it comes to the police investigations the Metropolitan Police had held on to the papers because of quotes political sensitivities and so I think the public needs to recognize that this is this is a lot bigger than backside and goes to the hearts of accept enough things bigger than bricks it is it at the moment I mean you'll forgive me for sounding a little downbeat but it seems to me that the attitude to this law breaking if you were opposed to breaks it to start with you see the gravity of it if you were comfortable with back seat to start with you put your fingers in your ears and close your eyes which is becoming a default position for people who were persuaded brace it was a good idea three years ago they essentially now live their lives with their eyes closed from their fingers in their ears but that's that's not that's and the people to blame for that aren't there sort of individuals who were in my opinion yes people do hold responsibility for knowledge and educating themselves but I think when you have mainstream public mainstream news outlets not covering topics that go to the heart of our democracy when you have journalists and politicians like like viciously saying this is all this is all a lie this is all has Hayes Hayes it so I think it's important for the public to recognize that it's it's okay to say to be for us to say these people are or have two things in there is but the everyone whether you leave or remainer needs to actually hold the people in power to account so that they're they're not manipulated again or that our democracy does not fall asunder again speaking of people in power and and indeed people being held to account the initial defense that came out of Downing Street if I'm correct was that what you said had occurred hadn't occurred and that the only conversation in which he were told it had occurred was pillow talk with your former boyfriend yes is that right yes Danny speeds up now but for me my vindication when these sort of things happen like for example vote leave withdrawing their appeal the first sort of thought that I have I'm just reminded again that here's the night here's more proof that darling street weaponized my sexuality and and I stuck my identity as a gay Muslim man to silence me and also and for me to not see particularly to not see public broadcasters like the BBC or even channels such as any mainstream news channel to not actually talk about this is evidence of I guess two things one there is a significant sense of fear among journalists on how to tackle this issue but to also a lot of people are complicit because I know for a fact that many individuals in the most powerful house parts of our political and media establishments are very close to the individuals who are implicated from the revelations and the evidence that I brought forward there will be friends and contact absolutely and which is why it's been such a difficult situation is why there hasn't been that much coverage you know I didn't get one call from the BBC except about this except from BBC Radio Scotland and the video Scotland has always actually been on board yes but otherwise in terms of mainstream news 8 News I won the Shamir I know we've had this conversation before but it's it's it's it's like the audience tables isn't it it is you either deny the existence of the audience tables or you have to reroute entire rivers to clean them out and you know when the head of vote leaves turned up on the BBC essentially offering up his rejection of these findings before the findings have been properly reported vote leave vote leave gave the Electoral Commission findings to the BBC in order for the BBC to report it before the Electoral Commission and even sent out the press stayed with excuses and deny absolute all of which fell on Friday well yes absolutely the whole interview that Matthew Ali did with BBC Laura cou with BBC's Laura keansburg who I'm a fan of yes I have any negativity towards her but for them to let Matthew Elliott slander the revelations that I had made without even a right of reply a one-on-one interview on primetime television for him to say his case and I was not even asked about it neither will any of the other people involved in this investigation do you think it was a coincidence that March 29th was the day upon which they put their hands up and and rolled over absolutely not these people are complicit in crimes and they will do anything use any political tool to ensure that they are protected breached by crimes of course we main breaches of electoral law yes and terminologies perfectly adequate so what do you think will happen next what do you think will have a nice and what do you hope will happen well in a minute there might be two different answers um I think right now I don't know what to think in regards because of how chaotic the political situation is but in terms of what I want I want a investigation into Michael Gove into Keesler Stewart into Boris Johnson because it was their advisers who who oversaw the entire campaign yes and it was them who knew about Billie vote leave and everything that went on in the campaign because they were part of the campaign committee so hopefully a public inquiry and full police investigations and what do you think will happen I think that this will be buried under the rug I think that the institutions that are there at the moment which are meant to hold these politicians to account one like the Electoral Commission do not have enough power or or in the case of Metropolitan Police are too scared of political sensitivities and so I think the Britain has always had a problem of institutional corruption and brexit is a sort of final kind of testament to that fact and I think the British people need to wake up and of course again not I'm qualifying your phrases but but there is only you here none of the other people we've mentioned their institutional corruption being a moral issue at least as much as a as a legal one er I'd for what it's worth think that proximity is the problem is you've absolutely highlighted I think some people in our profession can't quite believe the scale of what has gone on and is going on and is being either undertaken or or not properly called out by men and women they've known for 30 or 40 years the biggest electoral scandal in British history yeah and we're reporting it most single-handedly thanks to you show me Sony thank you as ever don't sit for me for another day you

Brexit – James O'Brien How Jeremy Corbyn as Target Practice is now OK

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Some British soldiers posted on social media them using a picture of Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn as target practice. James O’Brien links this to Brexit.

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and we're about to talk about a Labour politician being used for target practice by the army I do I do always think back to that breaking point poster as a as a really tragic day in British history when we somehow allowed the public space to be polluted by the most vile and disgusting of propaganda I really do and how do you find your way back from that the reason I talk about rules on which we could all agree or people this is Britain we don't put up posters inspired by Nazi propaganda in order to turn people against refugees seeking succor but it's too late for that Oh whoever was on the picture on that firing range I think I hope we'd all feel equally disgusted whether you find yourself still somehow under the impression that Jacob Riis mug is worthy of your trust then I would be just as disgusted if he was on there I hold very little affection or respect for Jeremy Corbyn I am disgusted to see British soldiers using his face for target practice using a photograph of his face for target practice I'm trying to think of the politician I I I like the very very least in Britain at the moment and you know love me or hate me Jeremy Coughlin would be a contender I've got to be honest with you not just the people who lean towards the very far-right of politics in the public space where the people who lean towards the very far left worry me extremism worries me Jeremy Corbyn seems to be catnip to a certain type of very angry hate-filled allegedly left-wing ideologues but it's disgusting to see these pictures I mean genuinely disgusting if it was Michael Gove or Boris Johnson it would be disgusting if it was Diane Abbott or Tom Watson it would be disgusting if it was nigel farage it would be absolutely disgusting and there's a man who said he'd pick up a rifle himself in order to work I remember what it was for defend brexit or some nonsense like that but even people who use that sort of rhetoric in my country deserve protection from that sort of behavior British soldiers on a firing range using a photograph of the leader of Her Majesty's Opposition for target practice now it's nine minutes after town every single syllable I've shared with you this morning is sincere I think you know that but there is a but coming here I am NOT a soldier neither am i a surgeon some of the stuff that passes for humor in surgical circles would make your hair fall out you have to be in a sense inured to things that people outside of your Miglia outside of your professional sphere would find a best shocking and at worst utterly disgusting I don't know whether the soldiers whose used jeremy corbyn's face for target practice used jacob riis mugs face before that footage was shot and possibly Teresa Mays face afterwards I don't know how normal it would be on a military firing range to cut a photograph out of the paper or to print something off on the internet and stick it up at the other end of the rifle range I and I am NOT by any stretch of the imagination making excuses I think it's disgusting point – it would be equally disgusting no more and no less if it was a politician of any other hue even I stress again even an extremist politician because you do not battle extremism by free passing the kind of thing that they approve of so even somebody who would be as irresponsible as to suggest picking up a rifle to defend a mythical brexit even they must must be protected at every turn from this kind of thing and that word protected seems to me to be pertinent here because this was confined until social media blew it up out of all proportion this was confined – presumably half a dozen squaddies half a dozen soldiers doing target practice and if it had stayed confined to that none of us would be shocked or disgusted or even aware of it there would have been a time when something like this would have been laughed off as a joke a time when people would have ridiculed politicians even to this level without batting an eyelid but if you look at the way the country the UK has changed over the last number of years because of brexit in a way certain things that would have been considered funny in the past are now have now have a sense a sinister tinge to them things that would have been considered taboo are now considered mainstream so brexit has in a sense brought out the worst in people or it has brought to the brought to the the surface feelings or ideologies that people had thought in a sense had died or had in a sense being kept under the surface so this idea and the idea of shooting a politician or using a politician's face as target practice um we can see it as a joke but James made a very important point you know whether if it was just one particular politician in this case Jeremy Corbyn or where there was there a list did they have a list of names and they went okay let's choose Theresa May next and let's choose Jerry Jeremy Corbyn and they will have Jacob Riis Morgan I would have Boris Johnson would have a you know celebrities will have so if it was what was the context here and I think the context is very important if it was a joke it's one thing but if it's something that was unacceptable before but has become acceptable because of brexit and that's very worrying

Brexit – James O'Brien vs The Brexit Liars

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James O’Brien destroys those Brexiters who lied before the referendum and are now pretending that they didn’t.

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I want to talk about the seaside before that I actually I've had Tony on old for ages he's probably fallen asleep let me see if he's there Tony is in Wimbledon Tony are you still with us what would you like to say I've just been listening to you since this whole thing has been going on and our eyesight seems to be even amazed with what I've just heard we have guard to the Guardian article here and the one thing I will just sort of say we've come up against a very unusual set of circumstances we've seen Parliament at times seems like it's not effective but the one thing I believe at the end of the day is that we've got to allow our parliamentarians in the parliamentary process to go through it's it's it's processes to whittle us down to what we can effectively work out and go forward with the relationship on the EU strain of everything that the people who said we had to leave the European Union because our Parliament didn't have any power are literally now whining about Parliament having too much power yes and I think what people have got to remember in the day is that it's Parliament if we allow anything else other than Parliament the Prime Minister to sort of be at the helm of these things then we're looking at something but when I read the articles in The Guardian it worries me deeply as to what exactly is going on this rule in the engine of these ideas we just don't know who's paying for it well this is disturbing and I think as we go through this process of decoupling from a direct membership of all membership of the EU I hope equally as well that arm our Prime Minister and the politicians seriously do give some time to look at what exactly has gone on and try and learn from it for the future because we've got a process will be what do we end up with then I mean the Tories may get something through Parliament whether it is with jeremy corbyn's help or not and then we have a referendum on either that or revoking or do we what do you have on the ballot paper or do you not want a referendum I think the decision is pretty clear I know there's a lot of limbo over it all the people have voted that they don't want them but they do not want to be in the EU I the one thing that I'm glad it's slowly becoming more more apparent despite it being very hard for some people to understand is that we have to just like we graduated into the statement of MIDI membership that we have now with the EU we can't just jump out of this we're not in like a wall except that and I'm gonna try to prove this to you that claim that we know people voted to leave the EU is not true that's what's really ugly about the continuing reductivism of this debate now the claim that No Deal is the only way and was always the only way in which breaks it could be delivered I've already shown you that Sun editorial from from October 2016 categorically stating though the only circumstances in which we'd have to leave the single market would be if the EU forced us out in a fit of pique as opposed to the truth which is we will have to leave the single market because of the indivisibility of the four freedoms and and it gets worse there's a brilliant fellow on Twitter tweets under the name Steve analyst you may remember him providing an American perspective on this very soon after the referendum result came in and he's done it together he's done it again he's put together an astonishing plum thread of clips and evidence of why this talk of no deal somehow becoming the same as quotes brexit is is so dangerous I tweeted it from my account this morning but I really would draw your attention to some elements of it and and I'm gonna do so now because listen to these campaigners pre referendum and bearing in mind that you're now been told that you voted for No Deal why that's what you're being told by these people and I know this is a really tricky thing for me to do because if you in your mind are now convinced that you did vote for No Deal I can't really do this without being a bit rude to you and I don't want to be a bit rude to you but why are they spending why are they spending all this money filling out Facebook feeds with these suggestions without disclosing where the money has come from just just think about that here is Liam Fox legally under lisbon treaty if we decide to leave the European Union the European Union is required by law to enter into a negotiation with us about extricated ourselves including offering us a trade agreement so it is part that's already written in to the Lisbon treaty should we decide to go they have obligations we are not like Switzerland a country already outside we're already inside single market they have obligations to us not to impose bad trade tariffs or barriers that don't already exist so it makes a very big difference to the dynamic of the debate when that point is made loud and clear I have no comment to add to that that man is still in the cabinet the Secretary of State for international trade turns out I do have a comment to add to it after all but you knew that that wasn't true when I said it that's incredible right essentially positing the notion that it would be illegal for us to leave without a deal because of the Lisbon Treaty now people like Liam falsely claiming that you voted to leave with our ideal people who told you that it would be illegal and impossible prior to June 2016 are now saying it's not even the opposite you need a stronger word than polar it's not even the polar opposite it's like a whole different cake but there it is would you like to hear from a man still considered by many to be somehow the respectable face of brexit and the one that actually did understand stuff and it was just a minor aberration when he suggested that the country had had enough of experts yes Michael Cote Britain is in a unique position I should say that other countries which are outside the European Union but benefit from this free trade have faster growth rates than many eurozone countries but those countries tend to have significantly smaller populations than our own more than that as I pointed out in my speech European Union nations sell more to us than we sell to them why would they wish to cut off her nose despite their face and even if there were an EU politician bent on that act of economic self-harm do we really believe that in Germany the car workers would accept the losing jobs as the price of the vanity of a particular leader do you really believe that a french president or prime minister would deliberately seek to restrict french farmers access to all markets I didn't believe that's credible I can see why as well because it makes sense when you put it like that because it doesn't make any sense at all now the reality is bitten but these are the people not so much in goes case actually but people saying we should leave with no deal or on the same side of the argument as go who claimed there that it would be perfectly easy to have full access to the single market without being bound by any of the regulations they were just wrong let's not call them liars today or shysters or charlatans let's just call them wrong so how can they now be claiming that you know englidh for all the stuff they told you that they've turned out to have been horribly wrong about it gets better I've got David Davis and take a brief smoke after this quite clear no mind the access to the European market will be maintained and access to other markets around the world will be increased that's really much of the argument for for leaves and still they go on and then of course that the king of the No Deal Jacob Riis mark I shall share with you his thoughts on article 50 preventing any economic shock in the case of the UK crashing out no thoughts is quite the right word burbling z' is probably better I'll play you that after this so if I say no deal who is the British politician who Springs most readily to mind it's probably Jacob Riis mark who has insisted that the economic damage would probably be over after 50 years and that we all voted for it anyway this guy but I also want to come to your main point and that is on how we trade in future crucially there's article 50 on the treaty of the functioning of the European Union which sets out how we leave and the terms we would get and there's a very good report by the House of Lords committee that looks into this saying they've looked back at how that article came into the treaties and the whole purpose of it was to avoid an economic shock for both sides if somebody left how's that working out have you cast your vote based on his inputs and insights it turns out he was wrong so how can you not have another vote answer I don't know betrayal or nah the referendum yeah the one they cheated to win still don't know we're eight million pounds came from in the in the case of the levy you funding this is Britain so James is right about everything he said here now he referred to a 2016 article this was an article that was released just before the referendum by brexit errs and at the time they said that the UK could only leave the single market if it was forced out now this is very strange because now they're talking about leaving the single market by choice and this is what actually people voted for in the referendum so the idea is saying that at the beginning the only way the UK would be out of the single market would be by being pushed out by the European Union but by the European Union being an aggressive force pushing the UK out while in reality the European Union has said all along if you want to be within the Europe within the single market it's completely possible but this now is being used as a tool by brexit errs to say no no we want we want to be out of the European Union and the single market now the idea he also talked about was that the No Deal was something that was also presented before the referendum in reality it was something that was never mentioned before the referendum and the whole idea of a No Deal is idiotic because well first of all nobody talked about before the referendum and second as soon as you leave the European Union the day after there is no deal you have to have a deal so the idea of No Deal is is is irrational and illogical because as soon as No Deal takes place the day after you have to work to have a deal and that deal is going to be worse than membership by default now breck sitters in my opinion knew that they were lying but they hoped that people would forget this or ignore it it's 19 1984 esque type of language and thinking you know you tell people one thing one day then the next day you tell them the polar opposite and anyone who says well you said this yesterday you refer to them as a liar you have you refer to them as misinformed you refer to them as ramona's so anyone you tell people lies you know their lies with the hope that you'll never be discovered but when you are discovered you just tell people that they are the liars and in a society that has become so polarized this has this is going you know this is becoming the normal way of thinking you don't have to tell the truth you just have to tell the right lies to your own base and they will they will lap it up they will just accept anything that you throw at them now there was also the lies of the idea that the UK that the European Union needs the UK more than the UK needs the European Union the lies about they need us more than we need them and of course the the example of that was the the car industry saying that the German and French car industries would put pressure on their governments and therefore put pressure on the European Union to change its stance and of course we've seen that that hasn't taken place that hasn't come to pass so once again these are lies by Tory brac sitters and also some labour brac sitters now normal people can be forgiven for believing these Tory ministers for their lives but the ministers can't be forgiven we can't forgive people who have lied you know these people are paid huge salaries each year to do to know their stuff and they're either lying or they're incompetent and in some cases I think it's both they should have they told people things that they didn't know and in reality they should have known they should have known what they were paid to know these are people who have spent years as politicians in Parliament's they've had contact with the European Union over over decades they've built up trust with people they've built up knowledge and it's it's farcical to imagine that these people these Tory brass eaters didn't understand how the European Union worked maybe they were in such a bubble that they didn't understand but I find that very difficult to accept

Tony Benn – EU Referendum – EU Empire – Democracy – Brexit

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Tony Benn on the EU

“I can think of no body of men outside the Kremlin who have so much power without a shred of accountability for what they do”

On Thursday 23rd June 2016, the people of this country will be asked a question that nobody has asked them for 42 years: “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?

My answer to this question will be to leave the undemocratic European Union unequivocally. There are very few politicians who I hold in high esteem and one of those politician is the late Mr Tony Benn who said “If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system,” who was a lifelong opponent of rule from Brussels.

This is a once in a life time opportunity to say I believe in an independent democratic Britain that can and will prosper without being part of this expensive undemocratic authoritarian federal Superstate. If the people of Great Britain decide not to leave we will regret and lament for this grave mistake and our children and their children will suffer immensely due to this decision.

Tony Benn Tony a grits go on tonight cause smokers on many platforms welcome back to our platform here's the microphone right thanks Ron it's a very big issue this whatever view you take of it it is a very very big decision and I very glad Keith Edwards in favor of its come out in favor of the European Enterprise has come out favor of this and this idea that you're only in favor of democracy if you if you think you're going to win the argument is a completely irrelevant oh can I just look back on my thoughts about this to explain the position that I'm in I was born after the First World War Second World War the combination 110 hundred five million people died and there are people say we could never fight again in Europe and I agree with him 100% I do not want the old naturalist Europe where you hate foreigners so that's the argument for cooperation and I take that view I'm strongly in favor of cooperating with Europe I was for a time well I campaigned for the referendum if you know this I own him I was in the minority one on the National Executive in the shadow cabinet in 71 they didn't want a referendum but in the end we've got a referendum after we've gone in and we lost it and then I was on the Council of Ministers and that was a most shattering experience they're living in my life because I was the representative of Britain and for six months I was the President of the Council of of energy ministers I wasn't allowed to submit a document only the Commission for bureaucrats could submit a document I could say yes or no sort of a constitutional monarch if you like they control it mate in secret it made laws for Britain and every worth inmate in secret and when I suggested we met in public or nearly strangled me because all their dirty little deals would have come out and so I the more I thought about this and this is what it's about now it is about democracy remember this I was a member for 51 years members of parliament are lent the powers of their constituents and they have to return those powers and diminished at the end it's not for members of parliament to give away the powers that will link to them because they don't belong to members of parliament they belong to the electorate and that is a critical matter and now I say something else I mean we're probably concerned with Britain but it terrifies me that Germany didn't allow its own people to have a referendum and with a journalist would enter the european union and have the treaty and you know in before the war Hitler wasn't exactly a Democrat and that practice of it everything being decided at the top has been carried on to that France they had a referendum defeated it and now Sarkozy is trying to bypass it and we live in a continent where increasingly power has gone to a group of people are not elected cannot be removed and don't have to listen to us I mean Mandelson's a very powerful man he wasn't even elected by the House of Commons Blair appointed him under the royal prerogative and Mandelson doesn't have to listen to us with all the defects of our democracy the reason governments listen to people is because you you get your power from the people I mean being an MP you know this weird a very unusual position you're one employee in 60,000 employers everyone in your constituency employs you the bus driver the street sweeper the home help the policemen the employer you could say what your life and always have done but they get rid of you because I'm because it get rid of you you have to listen to the Madison doesn't evolution anymore it and it is the most bureaucratic terrifying system in the world and it's being imposed on us on the ground is tidying up I must save tidying up involves tearing up the British constitutional that's an interesting definition of tidying up and I think this argument is an overwhelming argument now there are other views of Europe as I say I don't know back to the old nationalism because of the bloodshed that was a took place you could have a United States in Europe you could have a president and a Congress and a House of Representatives I mean at every holy and will be but couldn't complain about you after all America isn't governed by commercials you want this country governed by commission you could apply the European got using to Britain and you'd find they were commissioners and we don't even elect your appear members of parliament do you realize that you vote for the party I can't write to an MEP and I won't vote for you're going to write back say Tony you never vote you in the first place you voted for the party in Blair decides who is the candidate so the thing is absolutely undemocratic and the effect of it of course is to create a lot of hostility to it which means it won't work anywhere I'll tell you one thing even if I believed in it I think this system will end up with the breakup of the European Union like Yugoslavia and I do not want that happen either I do not want to find we go back to hostility based on blaming the French or blaming the the Italians or the Germans because what's wrong is the system is wrong and that is what we have to prevent now how do you win the argument well I mean I listen to all this stuff that this week about going to participate more the manifesto is going to be put out to a referendum will manifest says only lasts for a couple years but this decision is far more important than the next labor manifesto because he decides who governs what my god system and there was a glow over whelming argument and the all stood for absolutely right of course the reason they do wonder they wouldn't carry the day you couldn't carry the day and so this is the argument now if I I'm not a great moderniser if that means privatization and the rest of it but I must say pets we should come up with the idea of modernizing the European Union by which I mean restoring power to the member states to cooperate I'm not in a next release I mean I'm not either about you I'm not in favor of Scottish Parliament if you are well it is a Scottish Parliament they'll love it in Brussels because they'd be easier to control if there's a Scottish Parliament my mother is a Scot I'm going to Scotland I'm going to lead a campaign for the independence of the kingdom of Fife again sitting right I don't think nationalism is the answer to lack of democracy the answer to lack of democracy is more democracy and you know what I'm it recovery is with you if this all goes through Gordon Brown will be the Prime Minister Britain you'll be the mayor of the Greater British Authority like Kayla vixen well it is I mean he won't have the power to do what he want to do because those decisions will be taken elsewhere and so it's the destruction of our domestic democracy as well as a European arrangement that is undemocratic that really worries me very very much indeed and I think we've got to think this out very very carefully but if we put a serious argument everybody wants to cooperate with Europe of course they do but cooperation on the basis that you put up proposals for harmonization and the nation states decide which of those proposals they will adhere to it will be slower it'll be more difficult but by God in the end you'll be sure that every single harmonization law has been consented to by the Parliament and can be repealed by succeeding Parliament now one last point I think what we're seeing in Europe is the beginning of a much much bigger and more dangerous trend the death of democracy generally leave aside for a moment Brussels the IMF is not elected by the money World Trade Organization not elected anybody multinational corporations are more powerful the nation sex they're not they're not elected by anybody the central bank in Frankfurt not elected by anybody and funnily enough one of the most successful countries in the world is Norway Norway why they're successful I tell you why they nationalized their oil when I was energy Minister I managed to get hold of 20% of the North Sea oil which Thatcher sold off but Norway got the lot and I thought it was a Swiss General the other day I don't normally talk to generals but he happened to come and have a chat to me and they have the referendum as the basis of the principle and they said we're never going to go into the European Union and you see we don't have to go this way this idea there's no alternative in mrs. Thatcher's phrases it's completely untrue we have a choice it's an important choice and we're making a democratic argument that should appeal to people of all opinions not just political opinions but even those in favor of the new pretty should have the guts to say no very I'm in favor of it I'm in favor of it being introduced by the consent of the British people so I think the challenge to democracy is a big one we've seen a bit of it at this conference very interesting conferences no resolutions and no bookshop you can't hear anybody's ideas the only book you can read by the way is jump Alastair Campbell book it's been sold at the party headquarters back when it was funny enough when it was Alison Campbell book came out I thought there'd be a Harry Potter queue outside the bookshop so I got there early case they will sold out nobody there and I said to the girl if we got the Blair yes and she said how do you spell Blair that's on how that somehow said it all comrades we've got a very important are just like the Chartists and the suffragettes we're about democracy and democracy will be fatally damaged in Britain and in Europe if we go along with the system that has no firm democratic babes all they're going to say I tried not to be controversial at 82 in our try just to put simple arguments but I fully support the safeguards committee John's reports a brilliant I don't know if you collect them but I've kept every one he's ever written I'm going to publish the collected works of John Mills one day because it says the whole case acts so clearly on Austin's championship or others Peter Shaw would have been wrong a platform over here today so thank you for asking me I'm sorry I've got four more fringes but when you've retired everyone rings you up and says will you do a meeting issue to think you've got nothing to do so I'm going to slip off to them but thank you for asking me and I think we have a good chance of winning this because the public of with us and you can't defy the public forever on really big issues thank you for listening you

Question time special – Michael Gove – Brexit 15-6-16

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This is a Question time special with Michael gove for brexit, from tonight. Some of the last EU vote in or out debates, before the vote on 23rd June 2016. Vote to leave on June 23rd.

ASTROLOGY and BREXIT Prediction – EU Referendum 23 June

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What does astrology say about the possibility of Brexit?
PS. 1836 was when Queen Vic came to reign..sounded like I said 1886

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there's something very exciting happening in the UK this year no it isn't the Queen's 90th birthday celebrations and no isn't because we're really excited about the England football team's chances in Euro 2016 what it is is the EU referendum which is commonly referred to as brexit where we in the UK finally get our say on with we want to stay part of the European Union or choose another course now as someone who studied economics and is very interested in politics I've been keenly following this for many many years so it's very exciting event for me that is finally happening but I also as you know if you've watched any of my blogs I also do astrology and so I was keen to know what astrology had to say about brexit now with politics in astrology it's not always that simple to detect trends and how things might pan out but I can give you all one example of when astrology was very accurate indeed for example last year we had a general election in the United Kingdom in May 2015 and prior to the election all the polls had labour either head or neck neck and all predictions were saying that it would either be a neighbour majority all the Conservatives wouldn't be able to form the government and they'd have to go into either coalition again with more than just the Liberal Democrats because they would perform rather weakly so I was very interested so I thought oh well I'll have a look and see what the charts have to say so I drafted the charts of David Cameron and Miliband Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage and as soon as I looked at David Cameron's chart I thought wow he is smashing this so I immediately thought to myself the Conservatives are going to perform way better than all these scientific polls are saying and I was right because the Conservatives got an overall majority they didn't need to go into coalition and they were able to form a government conversely I looked at ed Miliband chart and I was thinking oh dear this does not look serendipitous for him and he resigned no he didn't resign the day after I did my prediction he does I he resigned the day after the election and his party performed not particularly well at all nick clegg ouch his party was nearly wiped out so his chart didn't look particularly good either and I looked at Nigel Faraj his chart and his was rather mixed because they were good and bad elements and as it turned out his party you kept got 3.8 million votes but only managed to get one seat in the House of Commons well if you're wondering how that can happen welcome to the first-past-the-post system that we have in the UK but anyway I found that the astrology was really revealing in terms of our previous election so I'm quite interested now to see what astrology has to say about brexit so I have looked online and I see there are other astrologers who making quite a lot of the fact that the actual referendum takes place on June the 23rd and that Uranus is a twenty three degrees of Aries because they say the whole 23 degree thing has been quite relevant in UK history but I'm not going to take this approach at all I'm going to stick to the methods that work for me and that's two things transits and solar are progressions now extremely briefly because you know you guys have but you don't know the technicalities of astrology so transits is where the actual physical planets are now with respect to the earth so that would be particularly the slow-moving planets like Pluto Uranus Neptune and Saturn and the solar arc directions are more part a symbolic movement of planets and I found them quite powerful in predicting trends so let's get to it the United Kingdom chart which I've got a picture of here I know it's really hard to see you on the screen it might come out a little bit small but like people countries have charts they have a date of birth and in the case the United Kingdom the date of birth is the first of January 1801 Westminster and so let chart is based on that particular date and the UK is a Capricorn tetes Libra rising it has the moon in cancer and it has its Midheaven in cancer so there's a very strong cardinal sign influence going on in the UK chart and I'm really interested to observe that most of the UK Prime Minister's have come from Cardinal science at the moment we've got David Cameron who's Libra Maggie Thatcher was Libra in the last general election all the contenders were from the cardinal signs David Cameron Libra Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg both Capricorn Nigel Farage is Aries and in Scotland Nicola Sturgeon has cancer so I think the message is that if you've got designs of being the UK president or prime minister should I say it really helps if you from a cardinal sign and also James Callaghan series it would heath cancer douglas-home cancer Clement Attlee was Capricorn so there you go and if you think about it Boris Johnson I just have a little look at his chart he's Gemini but his charts not really looking good for the leadership but keep your eye on Theresa May because she's another Libra so I think she may be in this beauty leader of the UK but enough about that where is the planet Pluto at the moment when you're thinking change which the EU referendum would result in a lot of changes it's quite a jolt we have all these people with scare stories sending harmful affect not only the UK but the world economy so when you look at things that are so potentially tumultuous or important events we look for the involvement of the planet Pluto and right now Pluto is in Capricorn and it's in the fourth house of the United Kingdom that's transiting Pluto and why that is important is when we think of Pluto in the fourth house we think of family breakup and if anyone's fall in UK politics they all know that Scotland are quite eager for the independence so that even though they voted no two years ago if the amount of Kingdom vote as a whole to leave the EU it's highly likely that Scotland are going to want to break away because they're quite keen on staying in the EU whereas at England and Wales tend to be the more Euroskeptic countries so the fact that Pluto's in the fourth house to me indicates that we gonna carry on seeing rumblings of breakup within the UK which indicates to me that we might be edging towards brexit so it's just one indicator the next thing is Uranus which is also a planet with change kind of too much turmoil events lots of them kind of renegotiations that's in Aries which is in the seventh house which is the house of partnership again partnerships with other countries treaties and sort of agreements we have with other countries so the fact that Uranus is there indicates a change up in our relationships with our trading partners and with the countries we have treaties with and it's there for quite a few more years indicating as we know their negotiations would have to carry on for quite some time before you know the whole breaks of thing is resolved if we do vote out but the most interesting thing that I'm coming to now is I had a look at where the solar arc pluto is and it lands up travels from the top that's it here lands are bright on the ascendant now when you're looking at a chart to see if there's going to be eat whether it's a personal chart or chart of a country you want to see whether the main elements of the chart are affected like the ascendant which is here the Midheaven up there the Sun or the moon and then you would look to see what planet is affecting it now the ascendant is a very important trigger point in world charts so the fact that Pluto is right on the ascendant there's to me this is an extremely important time in the history of the United Kingdom Pluto is the planet symbolic with change with quite a radical change the ascendant is symbolic of something new so both those things are saying to me that's well this is quite important this is not a troubling of a trivial event but I want to look back in the UK's history and see how active solar our Pluto was you know is it a good indicator of things that go on in the UK so Pluto begins its journey over here and it moves in 1886 solar off Pluto is on the descendant right opposite the ascendant and therefore another important part of the chart and what's happening around it just before the beginning of the realm reign of Queen Victoria now this was a hugely significant timing history its when it became you know Rule Britannia Britannia rules the waves it was colonialism but the time when Britain became the British Empire I've been told that has Queen Victoria been in power prior to that the United Kingdom might have not lost kind of the Civil War and America would have stayed a colony that's how powerful her effect was so you look at that and you think Pluto at the beginning of Queen Victoria's reign wow that was a powerful bit of symbolism in UK history then we move on the next major trigger point or solar arc pluto is when it gets to the top of the chart at the Midheaven that's in 1930 and that's the time of the greater depression the time the British Empire was on the decline and time beginning of a very very tumultuous and difficult time in British history going through World War two the slow rebuilding after all the days of World War two so again pluto marking big turning point in british history and now where is pluto on the ascendant bets so lock pluto but i look back again and I think what was happening the last time the UK had a referendum on Europe now this was in 1976 and referendum was then framed as do we want to be part of the EEC the European Economic Community and I absolutely really cop smacked to see that transiting Pluto is right on the ascendant during the 1975 it is 75 referendum I think Wow how symbolic is that here both times we have a referendum on Europe Pluto is on the ascendant in one case the transiting Pluto in one case at the Solar Ark so I'm not in 1970s 75 the boat was to join easy and I think that kind of put the UK on this whole juggernaut of being involved in Europe that we were heading towards what we didn't realize then is ever closer economic political and social Union so it did represent a big changing point in the United Kingdom history in terms of releasing some of our sovereignty to be part of this trading bloc which really wasn't it was going to be a political and social block now Pluto is on the ascendant we have again chance to change our destiny this time I think the greater change is represented by coming out rather than staying in so to be that's a pretty strong indicator that we might be heading out okay since the UK chart it's just a fantastic chart for a country it's the gift that keeps on giving because there's so much powerful symbolism in there I just thought I might mention that when Neptune that was on the ascendant that was in 1946 and it hovered around there for those years that was when the NHS was set up and Neptune is symbolic of hospitals metz and pharmaceuticals nursing caring the planet associated with all those things happens to be on the UK's ascend the exact time the NHS is formed something this country is incredibly proud of so there again some fantastic symbolism which says to me that this chart cannot be ignored we look back over the past and we see that it is predicting stuff with quite a lot of accuracy I've got some of the symbols written here which are quite interesting to explore not quite as interesting as my discussion about Pluto but they all part of it now what I've got there is solar arc Mars so that's the symbolic progression of Mars through the charts it is right on mercury in the third house that me indicates a great up in the temper of negotiations so it has is all about negotiations contracts deals mercury is also about those subjects trade deals mosque beads everything up gets a lot of frenetic activity that says to me that we also might be coming out hence the huge pick up and impetus towards new traders new negotiations ok we've also got the Solar Ark a sentient which is the movement of the ascendant through the chart that is linking up to Mars in Taurus in the 8th half now Taurus in Mars very stubborn and I think there is a kind of stubbornness amongst the British people where weak thing don't you Obama come and tell us what we should be doing don't anyone Christine Lagarde whoever you are don't tell us what we should be doing we can make up our mind because we have our own intuition and that kind of stubborn don't tell me what to do mentality within Britain is really being aroused right now added to the fact Mars in the chart of the United Kingdom if in the eighth house again the house associated with change with divorce with breakdown in old contracts old Nagar Oldham agreements and so for Mars in the a path to be activated again for me it's saying this whole theme of change of something new of a love a life death kind of transformative struggle where something old is dying something new is being reborn not necessarily something easy so we're not expecting a kind of quick cuts of air in here it's more of a long labor breaks it but at the end of it the rebirth of something new ok we've also got the solar arc moon is down here and it's opposing 7/7 for the United Kingdom is in the eleventh house second as a planet it's always related to things that kind of difficult awkward and the 11th path of the house of groups and associations and our association with the club that's the EU it is awkward it's difficult for us it's not something that the UK is slotted in to be one of the most of obstinate countries we're always the one kicking up our heels in Europe and the moon is kind of aggravating that settin which causes us to have this kind of reticence about joining with others and releasing our identity çetin really wants to hold on to identity to something conservative to what is traditional in the past whereas the 11th house is all about letting go and getting involved in something bigger than yourself so the fact that seconds activated says all we need to know really about what this brexit is all about it's about taking back control not being part of something will you surrender your identity so as as you see there there are some powerful indicators in this chart and in each heart it's quite unusual because if you think of your own personal chart you'll go through many years where you might not have as many as what there's 1 2 3 4 5 6 indicators like it's quite unusual to get such a powerful and such numerous indicators so that's all saying to me this is important this matters this is a turning point in our history and definitely it's lots of things that symbolic of change but there is another partner to this kind of divorce if you like and that's the European Union they also have a chart their birthday is the 1st of November 1993 in Brussels and that was the time the Maastricht Treaty came into effect so that's kind of the time but they've judged the birth date of human eye of the EU now a lot of people who astrology say are nonsense and you know sure have your doubts but when I look at the chart of the EU I'm thinking to myself someone higher up in the EU believes in astrology and has chosen the state because there's absolutely everything they want the EU to be is in this chart it's got a huge amount of the temple that's a huge amount it's got the Sun Mercury Mars and Pluto in Scorpio in the fourth house it's got Leo rising moon in Taurus those now are all the fixed signs this is a solid very solid chart we would say in South Africa kirbo home to her in other words both to last and there's no doubt that this organization is home to home all these planets in Scorpio indicate to me that it's gonna hang on in there despite the toughest times and it aims to stick around and be a powerful world force the Leo ascendant says to me this is a very ambitious a political bloc and I think really the ambition is underestimated by what we're thinking I think the e us designs on being a global power for the Euro to overtake the dollar this organization thinks big they are stubborn moon in Taurus they're not going anywhere they're gonna stick around very financially savvy they've got everything very tacky plant you know I often look at the EU and you look at the news about the migrant crisis and the various things going on and I tend to think Jesus you is a mess they don't know what is going on they have not really got a plan but then I look at this chopper I think now I'm actually wrong I think there's method in their madness I think there's a very very powerful underlying plan to work within this whole European project all these Scorpio planets it's highly methodical it's very well planned but the fact that these planets are in the fourth house says to me as well very secretive not transparent not looking to be particularly accountable and it also says that the EU is quite protectionist it's not really as outward looking as they would like us to think and it's quite inflexible it's very resistant to to kind of change and to reform which is what a lot of people would like to see I think it's it's kind of got its planning and it's a case of our way or the highway now the fact that both Venus and Jupiter in Libra indicates to me that they were some very laudable aims of the EU lots of justice fairness equality they really were trying to achieve those aims but I feel that the kind of controlling element because Taurus Scorpio quite controlling signs and I think that has almost become the focus of it the bureaucratic sorry the controlling side and some of these lofty ideals we see here represented by Venus and Jupiter be kind of lost there is something quite interesting going on there which is the Neptune and Uranus conjunction and that says to me a lot about scientific development I think that you are heavily involved in projects going on at CERN in Switzerland I think they are very focused on scientific development and in world leadership via science so I do think that that's something to watch out for and that is the way that Europe are looking to become world power of a dominant world force is through the use of science so what does it say about brexit well the EU is 23 years old and if you look here at the icarus coulis which is exactly opposite the Midheaven if you move it along 23 degrees what planet that had happened to bump into but Pluto so Pluto hitting the foundations of the EU there's it is about to be hit by a crisis now we really know the migrant crisis and the Syrian problem the Libyan problem it is a really a problem for the EU and they not don't seem to be dealing with it particularly efficiently that could be the crisis there could be more economic problems stemming from Greece and youth unemployment but it also says to me something's going to be shaking this organization up pretty soon this year and I think that could definitely have you another indicator that we're heading for wards brexit Pluto is also active in transits it will be affecting this little conjunction here of Neptune and Uranus now that symbolizes to me more about the migrant crisis that it necessarily does about brexit but again the fact that Pluto is so active at a major point in the chart leads me to think that the EU is going to be struggling to come to terms with a new identity with a new format and with kind of a new it might even the the UK either having this referendum or pushing for brexit might force the EU to reconsider some of its goals and to may become more accountable more flexible or change its direction slightly but again looking at this chart I'm thinking and getting a feeling of change and of quite radical change because pluto is coming so overall these are exciting times we live in very very exciting times in Europe anything could happen I feel with the results of the referendum will either be a vote out all the vote will be so close that the people who are clamoring for art only going to feel emboldened and stronger and their voice is going to get louder so what I don't think is that this vote will be the end of it yes if we vote out that'll be the beginning of offeree negotiations and a term well time for this country as represented by Pluto on the ascendant and the birth of something new as a it's a long labor rather than a cesarean it's quick but if the vote does go the other way I think the margin is going to be so slim that the rancor for art will get stronger and stronger and it won't be the clear-cut okay that's all done and dusted now we move on and forget about it that the government want Pluto's gonna be hanging around a lot more so get ready for change I remember years ago a friend of mine was going through a tough time in her marriage and she wrote to me one day and she said okay I sat down with my husband and we had a talk last night and we said was this working should we separate and she said to me afterwards once you've had that conversation there's no going back and I think that's what it is with breakfast we are having the conversation it isn't going to be you're going back this is the beginning not the end of it if we vote even if we beaudion it's not the end of it it's the beginning not the end of something new for the United Kingdom something that is going to be quite upset quite exciting and quite tumultuous do to end off when I think of the chart here of the EU I'm thinking that there's a lot of Scorpio and what is the symbol of Scorpio the Phoenix that rises from the ashes of its own destruction so you just think about that

Tom Harwood on BBC News

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Tom Harwood, Chair of Students for Britain discussing the EU in relation to students on the BBC News channel.

both sides of the campaign will have to concentrate on how to convince different groups of voters that their arguments are the right ones recent poll suggests support for staying in the EU is strongest among 16 to 24 year-olds one poll conducted by youth charity of the YMCA revealed that almost three-quarters of respondents of that age group said the UK should remain within the EU just 11 percent saying they would opt to leave wingtok matter tom Harwood as chair of students for Britain which supports an EU exit mr. wood why you saw it of step with most people of your age group you know well I really don't think we are I think that number 75% is quite a misleading figure when you talk to people on the ground what we found when talking to people is that most people just don't really care about the EU they don't know what it does for them and as a result they just kind of default for the status quo so we're here to argue that actually remaining in the EU is not the status quo it means spending over more power and more money to Brussels but also to debunk a lot of myths that are around a lot of things that are relevant to students for example the Erasmus programme and not just EU programmes are open to lots of other countries as well so we're there to put across the arguments for a really quite apathetic student population maybe people don't care because they don't see it as some kind of burden it's not really crossed their minds and therefore why would they leap in the dark as the Prime Minister put it well um the vote to remain would be elitist that are pending more power and more money to Brussels but equally lots of people don't know what the EU does when we talk to them about it they know it's something to do with trade but aren't necessarily aware that it's run by 28 unelected commissioners aren't necessarily aware that it costs 350 million pounds a week to be a member of those 20 billion a year that could abolish tuition fees twice over that could build a hospital every week a fully staffed hospital in this country there's lots of issues that people just aren't aware of so we're putting that case across in a really positive way and the other case obviously which will be put across by among others it's not just politicians but businesspeople is if you're a student and you want a job we should stay in the EU which is an argument that we will hear a lot over for the next three months I don't think that's the case business divided nots of businesses say that it's a bad thing that he decides our trade policy most businesses would like the UK to take back control of our in trade policy at the moment we can't make free trade deals with other countries Brussels has to do that for us so we don't have free trade with with China with India with Brazil with America with Australia all of these growing and developing countries where the EU is just stagnant so the real opportunity is a lot outside the EU of course we want to trade with EU and be friendly with the EU but we won't be a power on the world stage not just on a European stage does it worry you that the stay in campaign is led by Prime Minister who's saying this is about our security both our national security and also our Economic Security and the leave campaign isn't led by anybody who's essentially several leave campaigns and nobody can quite would work out losing who what well let's just wait and see I don't think students are going to be convinced by scare mongering from the prime minister or a lot of nonsense claims that being thrown around that have been found to be completely on based in any sort of reality I think more students care about all of the issues and opportunities that affect them and so I'm talking about the democratic deficit in the EU that we can't throw out the people that govern us talking about the opportunities that lie in the wider world when we can engage fully internationally in a climate change won't be solved as a block of 28 countries climate change would be sold as a world issue like like the pattern summit in Paris last year that was the world coming together not just not just a region top powered thanks very much for joining thank you

Boris Johnson's anti-European Union, pro-Europe Brexit speech (09May16)

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Conservative MP Boris Johnson gives a very good anti-European Union speech, but also makes the point, which the pro-EU brigade try to muddy, that Europe IS NOT the same as the EU. Europe is a geographic ares, the EU is a political project.

Boris rubbishes the CONservative PM’ David Cameron’s claims that there could be a war in Europe or wider if the UK leaves the EU political project. Total desperate crap. from Cameron.

Recorded from BBC News Channel HD, 09 May 2016.

Brexit – James O'Brien vs Brexiteer Caller's Solutions

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James O’Brien takes a call from a brexiteer who has explains why Brexit isn’t working out and also has a solution to the Northern Ireland border issue.

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we Eleonora have you working out falling out buddy James River and the fact that I believe you're wrong and I can tell you why the boxes enters with Tommy Tommy danced around in the Box Tom you've nicked it who has you know right go on well it's the same analogy as I've said too before that you you you by telling you that the box was always empty I've stolen your toast oh you don't but I do and I said all along it was but but I accidentally found a toaster and stole it you know people we the reason we haven't got this it's like all your analogous the root if you keep telling people we're going off the cliff edge it's going to be a catastrophe no one said any one no one said that the government's own economic forecast is I think a nine percent reduction in our economic performance of course they're not 100 percent right you silly sausage otherwise otherwise you wouldn't need a Chancellor you just have a robot you take you take you tip well don't do sarcasm Ellen because it sounded actually slightly more intelligent than your non sarcastic contributions so tell me about this toaster that got stolen what did it look like this is a deal could the deal that could have been done but hasn't been done so describe it to me yes well I think David Davis was right we had all the cards when we voted to leave it was people like Theresa May who overrun him and all the people he wouldn't accept democracy you just come here a minute how did David Davis how did David Davis vote on the last withdrawal agreement I don't know I haven't been watching it I've lost most of the interest in it yeah why have you wronged me then because I think I do believe David how did David Davis vote well I think a lot of them are scared that not Kimber exit I'm assuming I'm pushing out to you the bloke you've just cited as having been right all along voters voted for two reason a steel island the number of words does not increase the quality of the contribution David Davis voted for the withdrawal agreement this week because he's been terrified like the most of us are that he things gonna happen right as we've been blackmailed into accepting the deal that's rubbish and the alternative is at least a toaster Alan it's not an empty box you just say you keep saying that but you can't tell me anything about it well it's how did it address address the British border in Ireland annum well that the sticking point actually because even I did lots of research on whether to vote in or race even even I thought I had all the boxes ticked even on this the agreement right see the thing is about my analogy that you very kindly reinflates it today the whole point of my analogy is that the minute the Good Friday Agreement met the red lines the non-existence of the toaster became in arguable oven but my point is keep saying my point is and then not making a point Alan well I'm just let me speak and I'll make the point I have let you see the beginning of these negotiations children are a few years ago these we have followed the plan that we should have followed what's the plan we should have followed I should have created a brexit committee the plan not the personnel you should have created can one should have created a brake system it they let them determine was a lot Cameron was project fear why would anyone have trusted him after the country have called him a liar because well they obviously did did they didn't what here you're speaking the back people like yourself who wanted to remain you know I'm talking about people like you wanted David Cameron to be in charge of leaving after the country told him that his description he was the prime minister at the time wasn't it yeah we're just examining your theory on how things could have gone better and at the moment David Cameron should have stayed in charge that's all I've got so what would happen next yes what we were doing but David Cameron did what David Cameron didn't believe in it I'm aware of that David Davis did he turned up on the very first day said this will be the rather summer and rolled over after 27 minutes mate nothing to do to reason may that was his first and probably last encounter with reality but I I really want to get a little bit deeper into your understanding of this issue and I want you to describe to me and as broader terms as you please what this successful deal would have looked like and it's a little unfair of me because you've already admitted you haven't got a clue how to deal with the problem in Ireland which is the biggest problem I'm sure we could have come to an agreement that Northern Ireland Southern Ireland in the EU would have accepted yeah but that sounds really silly now because all of the evidence is that we couldn't so now I say to you what would that agreement be and you say let me speak the point I'm making is David Cameron should you say something else utterly irrelevant to the question that I'm asking tell me now what that deal in Ireland is that could have been achieved because I'm telling you as somebody who has been across the Good Friday Agreement since before the referendum there is no earthly way that you could have two separate customs areas without having infrastructure on the border now you think it could have been achieved and now you're going to tell us how right well not being a customs expert that had been created compensation just have to speak English now tell me how that could have been solved in your own world well I have I have three mates who I play golf with at the local course who are between them in each set of a hundred years experience okay well tell me that solution what's their solution their solution was they could do it electronically right have a great weekend Alan well okay this call sums up perfectly the mentality of the brexit ears so he starts off by blaming James O'Brien for the the current situation that brexit is in so this is the first stage blame the remainders it's the remainders fault that things are going as badly as they are if people believed more in brexit then brexit would actually come true similar to the idea of you know clicking your heels enough times and you and you will arrive in brexit vale I don't know then the next stage goes into talking about how so James asked him why didn't what was your plan what plan would have worked for you and he started going on about Cameron not creating a committee or something like this but that wasn't a that wasn't his actual plan he was just talking about what who should have been there so this is the second stage of blaming the politicians and saying that the politicians that the right politicians were were not in Brussels negotiating for brexit but David Davis was in bar in Brussels David Davis was the Minister for braces and Boris Johnson another brexit here was the foreign secretary so who who better could have been there maybe Jacob Riis MOG but Jacob Riis MOG wouldn't have signed up for for something like this because he knew it would have been a damn failure so so that's the second stage the first stage blamed the remainders the second stage say that the right people weren't involved you Archer Exeter's were involved in in each stage of course David Davis went to Brussels with nothing and I'm not exaggerating here he arrived at the negotiating desk without even a pen or a piece of paper so finally then the last stages okay what is your plan what is your final plan for brexit what would have worked in your eyes and he dodged the question number on northern ireland which is fundamental to brexit but he eventually was pushed on it and he said an electronic and border now James O'Brien just caught him off at this stage but just to rehash the whole whole idea of the electronic border the idea behind the electronic border is at maximum it could scan registration plates on trucks so that's you know you're not going to use there isn't a system in in existence at the moment in use I should say maybe there's some prototype yeah you know being experimented on somewhere but there isn't a system in place at the moment that can scan inside trucks and understand exactly what is inside there are x-ray machines but these are for spot checks these are not these are not at every border crossing these are in specific places and they check specific trucks you know they have x-ray machines to do this but it's not but this is more searching for smug and smuggling the smuggling of people it's not about products it's not about finding out what's actually what type of products were are inside the trucks so we can check if Duty needs to be paid on these things it's not going to see cigarettes for example or diesel fuel this is going to be just as look this technology at the moment just looks for people there are people hidden on board trucks and once again it's a spot check system it's not something that scans every single truck that enters the country which Breck sue the hard border would have to cater for so once again it's this idea of an anatomic border has been dished out by the orgy and in a sense the ERG is tryst trying to throw any type of idea that can come up with against a wall and see what sticks but they're not thought out deeply thought-out solutions for the Irish border or the Northern Ireland border they're just random thoughts and saying ok let's see if this can work it sounds good maybe the public can I do not latch on to it and feel that it's something that would push us across the line and there is something we can worry about later on and that's not what the EU is happy with this is not what the EU is going to accept they want something robust something that's functional and something that has been proven to work not pie in the sky ideas about electronic borders

Angry Brexiteer vs Data

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Adam in Westminster calls Clive Bull on LBC to vent about analysis by Focaldata, a consumer analytics company, which found that more than 100 Westminster constituencies which had voted to leave the EU in the 2016 Referendum have now switched their support to remain.

From LBC/Global 12/08/2018

and Adam in Westminster hello Adam good evening I'm sliced my blood is boiling again why well why are we on this supposedly observe being Guardian leftist poll who decided to take it upon themselves to inform the UK that people who wanted to leave now all of a sudden have woken up I'm smelling smelt the coffee and decided that we actually want to see what's the basis for that on an opinion poll no it's an analysis it might rain or it might not well that's not really much of analysis is it that's so that's hedging your bets why are you worried about this I mean it's somebody's looked at some figures and they're saying there's been a bit of a shift in opinion I mean your thing about it might rain tomorrow that might be subjective these are people studying it's it's actually studying figures worried about your blood pressure now it doesn't matter about whether this this research says one thing or another we can take it with a pinch of salt we can believe it not believe it people are entitled to their opinions but it's not worth you getting all wound up about feeling stressed now just listening to you people in this country have getting overexcited again I think the people if you don't asking does the EU understand of course they do I don't want it to happen they don't want it to happen they're trying to negotiate a a deal of some kind or another but they certainly understand what he means well you might think that Adam all right okay well try not to let it get to you Nicola in I know if they felt very strongly but sometimes I think gosh what is going on I mean we really are a divided country at the moment aren't we and you know if I have a look at this poll at the moment 43 to 44 heart brexit versus remain 3% going for this soft brexit compromise or whatever you want to call it it's just further proof that people are really polarized on this one


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#Brexit : Britain’s Biggest Deal – FORTH NEWS

Brexit, a portmanteau of “Britain” and “exit”, is the impending withdrawal of the United Kingdom (UK) from the European Union (EU). It follows the referendum of 23 June 2016 when 51.9 per cent of those who voted supported withdrawal. Withdrawal has been advocated by Eurosceptics, both left-wing and right-wing, while Pro-Europeanists (or European Unionists), who also span the political spectrum, have advocated continued membership.

The UK joined the European Communities (EC) in 1973 under the Conservative government of Edward Heath, with continued membership endorsed by a referendum in 1975. In the 1970s and 1980s, withdrawal from the European Communities was advocated mainly by the political left, with the Labour Party’s 1983 election manifesto advocating complete withdrawal. In the late 1980s, opposition to the development of the EC into an increasingly political union grew on the right, with Margaret Thatcher – despite being a key proponent of the European single market – becoming increasingly ambivalent towards Europe. From the 1990s, opposition to further European integration came mainly from the right, and divisions within the Conservative Party led to rebellion over the Maastricht Treaty in 1992.

The new UK Independence Party (UKIP) was a major advocate of a further referendum on continued membership of what had now become the European Union, and the party’s growing popularity in the early 2010s resulted in UKIP being the most successful UK party in the 2014 European Parliament election. The Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron pledged during the campaign for the 2015 UK General Election to hold a new referendum, a promise which he fulfilled in 2016 following the pressure from the Eurosceptic wing of his party. Cameron, who had campaigned to remain, resigned after the result and was succeeded by Theresa May, his former Home Secretary. She called a snap general election less than a year later, in which she lost her overall majority. Her minority government is supported in key votes by the Democratic Unionist Party.

On 29 March 2017, the Government of the United Kingdom invoked Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union. The UK is due to leave the EU on 29 March 2019 at 11 pm. UK time, when the period for negotiating a Withdrawal Agreement will end unless an extension is agreed. May announced the government’s intention not to seek permanent membership of the European single market or the EU customs union after leaving the EU and promised to repeal the European Communities Act of 1972 and incorporate existing European Union law into UK domestic law. A new government department, the Department for Exiting the European Union, was created in July 2016. Negotiations with the EU officially started in June 2017, aiming to complete the withdrawal agreement by October 2018. In June 2018, the UK and the EU published a joint progress report outlining agreement on issues including customs, VAT and Euratom. In July 2018, the British Cabinet agreed to the Chequers plan, an outline of proposals by the UK Government. In November 2018, the Draft Withdrawal Agreement and Outline Political Declaration, agreed between the UK Government and the EU, was published.

The broad consensus among economists is that Brexit will likely reduce the UK’s real per capita income in the medium term and long term, and that the Brexit referendum itself damaged the economy. Studies on effects since the referendum show annual losses of £404 for the average UK household from increased inflation, and losses between 2 and 2.5 per cent of UK GDP. Brexit is likely to reduce immigration from European Economic Area (EEA) countries to the UK, and poses challenges for UK higher education and academic research. As of November 2018, the size of the “divorce bill”, the UK’s inheritance of existing EU trade agreements, and relations with Ireland and other EU member states remains uncertain. The precise impact on the UK depends on whether the process will be a “hard” or “soft” Brexit. Analysis by HM Treasury has found that no Brexit scenario is expected to improve the UK economic condition. Therefore the UK is way better when staying out of the EU.

this is not going to hurt you it will hurt you that's why it is such a stupid decision to take for brexit ears the dream is a quickie divorce I am genuinely optimistic Orillia i think we should aim to put a bit of a tiger in in attack but there is political danger all around from Westminster if she doesn't deliver what they want they will stab her in the back just as they did with major and in effect with BC with Cameron just Scotland I've you know been very clear I think I'm second independence referendum is highly likely the truth no one knows where this will end up my anxiety is that the gain is very small and the pain is going to be very large I think we should be confident optimistic pragmatic open-minded it sounds like a diplomatic mission from hell a nightmare I think it is but it's one that the people have voted for so it has to be carried out when the Prime Minister packs her bags for Brussels how hard is it going to be is she ready is the country ready to do the deal they had a secret wish to make a joyful building to make a building that would relax people coming in and you know this is a very limited but still a power an architect is to influence on the mood of people welcome to the brand new HQ of the European Council where Brussels power lies this is where the brexit talks will take place I hope that it will help people to respect each other and we have joyful meeting I want to give them a homely space a space where the deep talents can be expressed like poets but brexit might mean more stern words than poetry counsel if you will prepare a judgment of divorce in this matter but divorce is messy breaking up is hard to do Britain wants out of the EU but we've been in for more than 40 years with our countries our systems becoming more and more tangled up with each other more and more in meshed and we only have two years to hammer out a divorce deal British ministers are also all too aware that with the series of elections right around the consonance it could be months before they get down to any serious talking so straightaway the clock is ticking this is the most complex divorce ever in history the number of assets and income streams and expenditures that have to be separated from each other and I think people don't always realize that that we have become over more than 40 years very integrated into the European Union so no one should underestimate the complexity of this task there's no real precedent for this other than Greenland now a Greenland is part of Denmark which has about 60,000 people and decided to leave the European Union and actually the main industry in Greenland is fish and it took three years actually for the negotiation to be completed now in the case of the UK are talking about the second biggest economy in the Europe with 60 million people so it is significantly a bigger challenge and we've got a lot more to worry about than herring and Karl we've got a lot more than fish to deal with it's going to be the mother of all divorces some people will do well lawyers and accountants the bean counters could have a field day because the EU is likely to try to make us pay money a lot of money is on the table one of the first things that you might well do they slap down a bill of as much as 50 billion pounds for Britain to pay in order just to get out that potentially massive bill is for Britain's share of existing EU spending commitments like the pensions of EU officials and if we don't pay the other countries will have to stump up there are some liabilities it will be very hard to settle what they are and of course whenever you get into money has in any negotiation in life that is one of the most vexing and controversial things given the the sensitivity in the UK to being for many years the second biggest contributor into the EU budget and then the anger that was felt by people about that in the referendum campaign any such question will be extremely sensitive but hang on remember this we can take back control of 350 million pounds a week wasn't the campaign based on getting money back from Brussels what would we all make of an exit bill so we have a check here with fifty billion pounds to the European Union that UK taxpayers might have to pay to the rest of the EU to get out we've been lied to yeah I don't think anybody was explained to enough what was actually going to happen I can't believe it we would have heard about that before surely cheaper the price to get out brexit yes could be gonna pay the 92 European Commission in Brussels potentially yes we will song suddam yes I'm Gamora we should never ever have given us a referendum none of us are educated enough to vote on something so serious just need to be tough same as any business deal I voted out so it's all my fault apologize you were the chair of the vote leave campaign you gave people a sense of expectation we were going to get money back now would it be rather embarrassing for you if instead we end up being asked to shell out to get out of the thing we will get money back there's always a chance always a potential that will pay a one off leaving fee but that one off fee having been paid what will happen is that for years to come money that we would have given the European Union will now be able to spend ourselves but if we have to pay a one-off fee of some billions weren't some voters who are persuaded by your arguments have every right to feel pretty cross with you well I think that we won't be paying the enormous sums that have been talked of in fact in in my view we should actually be jewelry bit but we will see what happens in these negotiations what does the British government say if Michelle Barnea the lead negotiator slaps down a bill for fifty billion pounds I think I think we have illustrious precedent in this matter I need you in that let's recall the 1984 Fontainebleau summit in which mrs. Thatcher said she wanted her money back and I think that is exactly what we will we will get we will say no you're saying it is not reasonable I don't think for the the UK having left the EU to continue to make vast budget payments I think everybody understands that and that's the reality I don't see at this moment in time the constructive approach on either side how do we make the best of this you know this is very much now a fight are we hurtling along on a collision course if the EU tries to insist the cash is agreed upfront could the whole deal be derailed before it's even begun I believe it will be a very tough negotiation and it could very well be that already after couple of weeks everything breaks down because there is no agreement on the principle itself of a check to be paid here I think the EU will indeed deliver that bill and I'll tell you what I think will happen is in that event part of the media well winner even more a storm of anti-eu feeling and so even more people will come to the conclusion that sooner we are rid of this ghastly bunch of people the better and that will drive the cliff edge scenario because they're unreasonable you can't do business with them it'll be whipped up and you can't get a deal and the sooner we're out there better but as everyone knows divorce isn't only about cold hard cash even if the money is settled the deal means disentangling ourselves from the hidden ways we are bound together the EU and the UK have been intertwined for more than 40 years and that will take a lot of unraveling if you like you could picture it as a huge Jenga tower and the task here is to remove or replace the elements that connect to the EU without having the whole fall apart it's going to require a lot of concentration and on a skill and it's going to need a real appreciation of how the two interconnect since 1973 much in our daily lives has been governed by EU law the quality of the water that we drink the farms where our food is grown and what happens to the law all the rules and regulation it all has to be worked out in a two-year deadline one good example is European Medicines Agency which supervises the safety standards for all medicines that are available within the EU I'm going to give you something new that we use with good results you'll be all right in a few days once UK has left the EU they'll need to be something in place of that to make sure that the products available in the UK meet requisite standards even the way we do our air traffic control is now on an EU basis you have to separate that out so that you know when aircraft can land where people can fish how farm subsidies are paid and you could imagine talking for months about each of them it sounds like a diplomatic mission from hell a nightmare I think it is but it's one that the people have voted for and so it has to be carried a happy our skies right now are governed by the EU with a myriad of European legislation it's in both sides interest to sort it out but it will take a lot of officials a lot of time it's the sheer scale that will be so difficult to manage because there may be some tasks that in themselves are not particularly difficult but when you add it to the to the huge to-do list that the government will have to make sure that breaks it runs smoothly then it becomes in itself a real challenge the lights in Whitehall are burning later than usual with two new departments to come government lawyers are right now trolling through thousands of pieces of legislation to work out what's next enough to make even the most brilliant minds bottle medical questions every day but please don't ask me to help with brexit remember Theresa May doesn't just have to sort out the money and well the whole legal system but the hardest thing of all is how do we do business with Europe in the future and for months she dodged the question Rex it means bricks it and we are going to make a success of it people talk about the sort of brexit that there is going to be is it hard soft is it gray white actually we want to red white and blue bricks in that is the right brexit for the united kingdom are we going to get a detailed plan prime minister finally in January she laid out her vision of what the referendum result really meant and what kind of deal that would entail the United Kingdom is leaving the European Union and my job is to get the right deal for Britain as we do but the message from the public before and during the referendum campaign was clear brexit must mean control of the number of people who come to Britain from Europe and that is what we will deliver gaining control over our borders and our laws meant losing something else we want to buy your goods and services sell you ours trade with you as freely as possible but I want to be clear what I am proposing cannot mean membership of the single market in one phrase undoing nearly three decades of British history since 1992 we've done business in Europe largely without tariffs or barriers in the single market remember who used to think it was a good idea the combination of the single market in 1992 and the Channel Tunnel in 1993 is going to make a historic difference to the future of the whole of Europe and its place in the world and our place in Europe for many big British businesses the single market has been hugely beneficial we are walking away from the biggest trade partnership that exists will you admit that there will be losers as well as winners I mean we cannot guess a deal that is going to be as good as our current relationships and side the single market well I've great respect I think it because it really better but I don't want to pretend that there won't be difficult questions because there will be challenges and I by the way I don't want to pretend that this country doesn't have economic challenges of course we have challenges but we can meet all those challenges and I think the government is setting out a very positive program for doing so and we can do a great free trade deal with our partners so what would a free trade deal with the EU look like if you have a look at a free trade agreement although I wouldn't necessarily wish it on anybody you'll see at the back of the agreement there are schedules and the schedules have in my Newt detail every different sort of product in every different form that that product might come in and there is detail as to what tariffs will apply in that case and its line by line for literally hundreds thousands of pages so Theresa May has set herself a huge task any new trade deal will require the agreement of 27 other nations and to be approved by 38 different national and regional Parliament's but Britain is isolated in Brussels it didn't start well the brutal truth is that grexit will be a loss for all of us there will be no cakes on the table for anyone there will be only salt and vinegar or Audrey the compote I give a party may they would reappear soon the Papas even the mood is a little bit like you're having a divorce you know they feel betrayed this is not proper you know that that's that's the mood in Brussels at this moment in time and nobody is showing any flexibility she knows Europe's leaders feel the survival of their union is at stake they fear a good deal for us would tempt others to leave well I hope the Continental you 27 negotiations will do everything in their power to make it a friendly process although it's going to be very difficult but I think those who imagine that Britain will be able to dictate to the rest of the European Union will be disappointed and they might find it huge strategy in Brussels is clear for every single one of the 27 EU Member States apart from Britain to stick together along with the European Council and the European Commission but Britain knows they all have some different interests and some different agendas so the British strategy pick them off divide and conquer that means working not just with national governments but powerful groups inside their countries too and using them to apply pressure for a deal our fancy tastes might help we drink more Prosecco from Italy and more champagne from France than anyone else surely the EU won't want tariffs on those even more importantly Britain is the biggest export market for Germany's mighty car industry the UK needs to identify very quickly every single nations real stake in this game and the number one thing the politicians react to is jobs what happens when that million car workers in Bavaria whose jobs rely on British exports that's 1 million people who are in work because they sell a large number of cars to the UK what happens when they start saying hang on a second are you saying that my job will go because you will refuse to have an arrangement with the United Kingdom because you think for political purposes that's best we should be talking and we'll be talking to the very people that make things and get people jobs and they pay their taxes because that's where politics really sits and then there's the City of London Britain has one of the most highly developed banking and financial systems in the world the UK will also try to persuade the EU that it's in everyone's interests to give London's massive financial services industry a special status in any deal I'm quite clear I'm pragmatic I'm trying to work with the government to ensure what it comes to them do to do with the European Union it doesn't make us poorer that means for example recognising the importance of privileged access to a single market it means recognizing the importance of our ability to attract talent and then the reality of a so-called heartbreaks is we would lose so would the EU because the jobs that would leave London wouldn't go to Paris Madrid Brussels Frankfurt they'd go to Singapore Hong Kong or New York a so-called hard brexit means we lose as a city our country loses but so does Europe it's certainly the case that if the current negotiators on behalf of the European Union tried to penalize the City of London they would actually be penalizing themselves because they depth and breadth of the capital market that is the City of London help sustain European industry so we should ignore saber-rattling from European capitals at the moment should we I think we should be um confident optimistic pragmatic open-minded I'm gambling that the European Union will put economics ahead of politics I mean where is the European Union ever puts economics ahead well this is I mean I I think that the answer to that is that I think the EU leaders will be very responsive to their electorates and to their business communities who can see the advantage of striking a deal with the UK where you have a strong you supported by a strong independent UK the way you maximise trade between them I know there is the the view in the UK with many that economics ultimately Trump's politics I wouldn't rely too much on there Britain on the 23rd of June the economic argument for saying was overwhelming and yet it was political set of arguments however disorderly which trumped the rather clear economic arguments and a key ally of Angela Merkel warns we cannot have it all our own way cherry-picking that cannot really be an option a state which isn't a member of the European Union and which isn't a member of a single market can't be better off than a member state of the European Union so whatever the new relation the new agreement between the European Union and the UK will be it will have to be less than the current EU membership of European Union but the real brexit enthusiasts believe the costs of leaving will be swept away by the trading opportunities with the rest of the world you've then got the FTAs the free-trade agreements with the rest of the world but we will now be able to do and we've got an embarrassment of choice because a lot of people want to do a free trade deal and so the the task will be how do we prioritize if you look at other countries which have been outside the single market they've managed to secure for themselves not just trade deals worth far more than the European Union has been capable of negotiating for itself they've also been able to pursue economic policies which have fostered growth creativity and innovation before any new deals can happen we have to tie up the arrangements with the European Union and it's even more daunting because there's a deadline can we really move that fast how long do you think it will actually take the average accession negotiation to join the EU for example is about seven years and if you look at the negotiation of the trade agreement between the European Union and Canada that took about seven years to negotiate so I think the quickest one the EU has ever agreed has been within a period of about four years typically eight to 11 years is not uncommon for negotiating a trade but couldn't we just put our foot down Lawrence Tomlinson owns a string of businesses including genetic cars he's a man used to doing deals you might just remember him from the referendum campaign well actually boys took me out for spring to start with which was quite disconcerting but I was really surprised he drove it very well and then we brought him back and we did a few donuts and it seemed to catch the imagination of the campaign and now around here you call it the Boris 'mobile we do we call this old girl the Boris Rubio in terms of the length of time it's gonna take you know some people say this might take as long as a decade it's gonna be very complicated and that delay is gonna mean uncertainty and that could be really damaging I think the government needs plow straight on I mean it's just utter bollocks that it should take 10 years why well world war two – just over five years and in fact I think it shows that the reason why we should leave you know that things like this could perceivably take ten years it's ridiculous so let's get on let's get a nice clean hard break and let's dictate it the government wants to get cracking they've set themselves a target of a negotiating a new trade deal in two years on top of all that tricky divorce every European diplomat pretty much every expert is very cynical about this being done within two years why are you sure it can be done well it certainly can be done in two years and there's no reason why it shouldn't be I think we should aim to put a bit of a tiger in in the tank as I say the the deal with the EU that negotiation I think should be should be fairly straightforward because we are in line with the rest of the EU when it comes to our standards and trade arrangements we just need to perpetuate that agreement what do you say to many supporters of leaving the EU who say look we could do this another way we could just repeal the act we can just walk out it could be all be done in a couple of years my answer to that is you could do that but you need to think about what you're left with and if you're left with not a very good relationship with other European countries and no clarity about the future arrangements in our biggest market because after all almost half of our trade is with the European Union then I don't think that's a very satisfactory position to end up in so it's that kind of crash and burn you could do it fast but we burn ourselves on the way so you could do a quick deal the question is could you do a good quick deal everybody agrees that getting it done in record time is a challenge of historic proportions this is down street station hundreds of feet below the posh streets of London's Mayfair and during World War two the government used to come down here for secret meetings Churchill used to spend time and these Warren's trying to decide what to do in the war some people compared it to the biggest job for any leader since the Second World War for you is it right to compare this to a challenge as great as the Second World War in its complexity it is right to compare this is not nothing like as great of a challenge as the Second World War it's not even the greatest moment since the Second World War but it is the most complex that is certainly true I don't think ever before as a government has to make had to negotiate over so many subjects with such a complex set of negotiating partners on the other side and so many competing demands on their own side I can't think of any parallel to that for any British government in history our ministers being straight with us about how hard it might be one former Prime Minister doesn't think so I've watched with growing concern as the British people have been led to expect a future that seems to be unreal and over optimistic obstacles are brushed aside as if of no consequence whilst opportunities are inflated beyond any reasonable expectation my own experience of international negotiations makes me doubt the rosy confidence being offered to the British people should you not just level with people and manage their expectations because people who are worried about yes it's very apparent it's very important to understand that I am genuinely optimistic I really am I think it's fantastic exciting moment I think we're I think we're gonna do really well but it's also important at the outset of any negotiation not to go into it with a sort of ish hesitancy about how things are going to turn out but to recognize and to communicate to our friends and partners that this is going to be good for both of us but just as you suggest your minds have been a bit gloomy Tigger might have been a bit naive all of us who are working on this Liam Fox the Prime Minister we all understand the chances we will understand there are challenges and there are problems none of them individually is by any means an insoluble problem and there are ways of taking advantage of the position we're in to be greatly to the benefit of the UK economy UK consumers and and people in this country this is Teresa Mays deal can she get it done she has a wafer-thin majority but so far she seems pretty much unstoppable her fail to trigger article 50 and start the brexit process pass through the Commons easily the eyes to the right 498 the nose the left 140 it suddenly felt historic but I was also conscious that in a way this was the easy part it was easy to make the case in the House of Commons that we should honor the referendum and respect the result the difficult part is making the individual decisions that will ensure that Britain is in a stronger position in the future but there are going to be inevitably difficult days ahead what there hasn't been yet is intense political pressure the referendum turned everything upside down I've got a plan he doesn't have a clue it's left labour divided and confused do you think we are potentially at the start of a really fundamental reshaping of British politics I just don't think you Pete you can tell at the moment I mean what is clear to me is that if the choice is between us or the hard brexit Tory party in a hard left labour party there will be millions of people who feel politically homeless the fact at this moment in time with this issue abrasive that you don't have an opposition capable or looking as if it's capable of winning is a problem I mean that is a problem for our democracy bricks it has clearly been difficult for the Labour Party but I do think the worst is over and now we can hold the government to account in a much more United way the difficulty for us as a pro-european party was whether to give the Prime Minister permission to start the process now we'll hold her to account every step of the way but one party sees an opportunity in crisis Tim Farron is the Liberal Democrat leader and he's calling for a second referendum but this time on the brexit deal I think you can keep find what you believe it you've got the courage of your convictions and I think that what politicians tend not to do is say stuff that is uncomfortable he's off to Doncaster we're nearly 70% of people voted to leave to thrash out his plan with some of them the bottom line is eventually she's going to come back with some kind of a deal and the question is do you trust her and Parliament to sign it off our point is that people should be able to have one last look over the cliff and say I'm going over or do you know what I'd rather not and I don't agree with another referendum you know the country's made a decision all right why be having the bickering so let's go forward together we will get there behind it make it happen in the best possible way I don't think it happens in the best possible way if there's no resistance and no challenge the Prime Minister we've scored one goal yeah okay you come in now Tim um you score another one you know it takes a parent you know I know it's not best of three what she's doing by saying you're out the single market I even arguing our place is settling for a pure deal and that's why we're you know amongst the things are saying is that the people should decide at the end so no I think the job of her have a good opposition is to challenge the government so that they better for many voters oh he ran round the country immigration was the priority right there why they come here why is it why the reason why they come here is because of benefits honestly it's not never heard of benefits no come on asleep honestly they haven't obviously they have your average European in Britain is youngish working paying taxes you're offering it they are oh and we have a kind of miss concept of the the value or the damage that European labor is doing here democracy is broken do you do not do not believe in democracy yeah I do I think I think democracy means two things one is having the grace to accept when you're not warned and the second is you don't clip and give up if you stake out a case and you argue people to follow you and you may succeed or you may fail a referendum on the deal is not just democracy it's about closure it's about the country agreeing that yet this deal were contempt with it the danger of there not being a referendum is the government decides and 3/4 the country say I didn't vote for that and there is simmering resentment and there's no closure I can see why a politician is a lot of personal charm it's very persuasive speaker but did you change my mind not for a moment we've got to take on the chin and move forward as United Kingdom and I said let's make this happen ok let's stop the right stop circle let's just go on with it Theresa Mays calculation is that most Britons would agree with that they just want her to get on with it and it's the decision to control the country's borders that has defined the Prime Minister's plan but will she actually be able to cut the numbers of people who come here we're seen as a brilliant business making brilliant cakes we've been in Taunton since 1865 I'd like to think we'll be here for another 150 years Chris Ormrod runs a bakery in the heart of Somerset we employ 400 people locally 200 of them British and the other 200 are from a mixture of nationalities from the EU and in some cases beyond so if you suddenly give me a very hard breaks in say you can't employ unskilled labour I cannot worry where I'm gonna get my staff from to do the sort of things that we do and to carry on growing the business for the future and that one is that is a sleepless night kind of question and I don't know how to answer that properly at this stage Chris isn't the only person worried here chef Lubo has been in Britain for eight years when we first moved here my daughter was five months old and now she's eight my son is six so both my children were raised here they went to kindergarten they went to school here they feel they belong here if he was going down the heartbreak see way that the worst case scenario for us would be to move me and my whole family over to Slovakia that's not what we planned that's not the future we planned for our children so it's not just about us it's about their children and it would have a massive impact on their lives is really the fate of the three million or so EU citizens who live here as well as more than a million Brits who live on the continent will be on the table when the brexit talks begin but this business and many others depend on them suspect most people say wanting just to hire more Brits locally believe you me we have tried I mean as I stand right now we've got 30 vacancies that's very nearly 80% of my workforce and I can't fill them and the simple truth is just aren't enough local people that want to come and work in the factory for years shared in very different industries in very different parts of the country I'll give you one simple statistic twelve and a half percent of London's workforce that is more than a 600,000 Londoners and the Londoners by the way were born in countries in the European Union they work in construction they work in finance they work in tech they work in the professional services they help our city thrive and flourish if we can't continue to attract them we're going to struggle and suffer Teresa may has been absolutely clear we're not staying in the single market and she's determined to bring emigration down and that means an end to freedom of movement well I accept the argument there are parts of the country that don't want immigration there are parts of the country where the voters they're voted to leave the EU because they thought it would lead to a lesser immigration I'm quite clear in relation to London they've really continued to flourish and thrive we need to continue to be able to attract all since the referendum the government's tried to reassure individual industries they won't lose their workers but does that mean immigration won't fall right now on what the government is telling us we're going to still be bringing the majority probably the large majority of these people in from Europe yet that was the main reason people gave for pulling us out of Europe so all I'm saying is a very simple thing you know when people start not just to see the pain that start to realize that in terms of the gain we're not going to be pulling those European numbers down to a few thousand we people are going to carry on coming because we want them to come for how long should voters expect to continue to see significant levels of immigration for the European Union because that's what it's about isn't it there was a political promise of us being able to bring immigration down leaving the European will come to us and I would listen make no bones about it I mean the Prime Minister X Home Secretary is determined that it will come down but it'll come down in a way that doesn't do harm force waves of photos though shouldn't you be preparing them for something that feels rather different to what they think they were promised I mean might we not end up with a bad compromise here where significant levels of immigration remain so that business doesn't lose out but then also a new bureaucratic system of dealing with work permits and visas for a business well that's not gonna be a great compromise for anyway it's going to be a good it's going to be a good outcome about the compromise it's gonna be a good outcome because a will control it that's the first thing we'll decide and we'll make decisions on economic and also on social grounds and so on secondly the bureaucracy could be overstate it it doesn't have to be a bureaucratic it's very plain what we want to do we want to keep our economy running at the same time as bringing immigration down hold uber and how long should it take how long should people well it'll it'll it'll take what it takes because of the economy will drive but there's another fault line a fundamental one the tension between Scotland and the rest of the UK just listen to this from the Prime Minister's very first speech on the steps of number 10 it means we believe in the Union the precious precious bond between England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland yet more than 60% of those who voted in Scotland chose to remain in the EU that's encouraged those who believe in independence to push for a second vote – these are me in deciding to plea to the hard right Brick City at our own party rather than trying to find maximum common ground is in danger of making a decision to leave the EU which I already think would have been damaging potentially quite catastrophic for the UK your opponents would say though you're trying to use this situation to revive the independence arguments I deliberately didn't in the morning after the EU referendum see right that's it we're offered more having a second independence referendum because I wanted to see if we could find that compromise ground not hugely optimistic about it at this stage because we've been met grappling in a fierce fight to keep a UK together there are serious issues for Northern Ireland – the peace process which ended the troubles partly depended on an open border with the Republic in the south but Teresa Mays decision to leave the single market and what's called the customs union could force a return to a hard border with echoes of the past the risks to the peace process I think are substantial if you start putting a hard border down they're quite apart from all the disruption and the difficulty you you will change that context in a way that is profound than an adverse Tony Blair has told us in this program that there is a real risk to the peace process while the border issue is unresolved that things could be very unpredictable in Northern Ireland as he writes well no I don't think years and the reason he's not right is because everybody is seized of the issue so we all of us want to solve it and what a solvent means it means having a frictionless border it means not going back to the borders of the past I am confident we can actually get a resolution which is comfortable for the people of Northern Ireland and also comfortable for Ireland the Republic of Ireland by the end of the month Theresa May will press the button on two years of brexit negotiations they'll be as complex and as tortuous as anything that's been attempted since the European Union was born this time every leader in that room is negotiating not just with their foreign counterparts but with their own media with their own Parliament with their own party and with their own public and that is a very very tough negotiation to get right that multi-dimensional chess game there are crucial elections in France and Germany this year with Europe's most powerful politicians distracted it may be autumn before any serious talks begin in this town with so much to negotiate no one doubts one thing there'll be long days late nights it will go to the wire in a negotiation which is relatively fixed in time why would you make a major concession once you've started the negotiations halfway through you would save that all up when you're getting to the 11th hour or when you're approaching the end of the two years and that will make it an agonizingly difficult process it always does there's always somebody holding out for a bit more most European deals in the end are settled either at the last minute or after the last minute David Cameron learned that lesson the hard way in previous battles in Brussels and frankly not acceptable for the way for it to be left to this last minute and then attempt reopening it and the sort of ambush 1:00 a.m. in the middle of a year at the end of the European Council meeting I just think this is no way for an organization to conduct itself and I find it immensely frustrating but you know in this town you have to be ready for an ambush at any minute and that means you know lock and load and have one up the spout and be ready for it that's exactly what I did the reality of these negotiations particularly at three o'clock in the morning is that no plan survives contact with the enemy you can have spent months preparing the perfect game plan but just as in a military campaign it will all come down to those find minut judgments you make on the spot in this diplomatic game the questions who has most to lose and who blinks first most famous chippy and Angela Merkel even popped down here from a summit when things got a bit fraught late at night and round here things do get very very late and very very tricky and the closer we get to the end of the two-year deadline the more pressure there is on Tereza made our opponents across the table they know full well she doesn't want to walk away with nothing if the deadline looms and there's deadlock one option for the government is to seek a temporary arrangement but that's not what ministers want what does that transitional arrangement if it consists of more or less staying in the status quo in terms of access to the single market and everything that goes with that in terms of respecting the rules of the European Court of Justice allowing freedom of movement of labour then I think there are many people in this country who would find that very difficult to accept look that this is the reality there's a bunch of people they have lived eaten drank slept everything for this moment and they are not going to let anybody snatch it away from them and Teresa Maine knows that can't appease them and if she doesn't deliver what they want they will stab her in the back just as they did with major and in effect with BC with Cameron ministers don't want to extend the talks beyond the two years so if there's no deal that leaves only one option the cliff edge the cliff edge describes the reality of one day being in the EU with everything that that means and the next day being out of it with no deal and the level that you switch between between those two worlds is very dramatic which is why it's described as falling off a cliff edge there is a risk of no deal if we get no deal business would regard that as pretty severe outcome so you know you're playing for very high stakes in this for sure because that there are a myriad of technical questions all of which actually impact on jobs and business and industry and and trade and commerce so look I think No Deal is a bad deal if you are so optimistic about getting a good deal though why did you warn your cabinet colleagues that the risk of us having to walk away and not getting a deal at all is very real ah be careful when I said to the Moors they've got to do that they've got to do the work for the so-called plan B or C or whatever it is it's not plan a you acknowledge it is plan B Plan C you plan whatever is my which were wearing wherever it goes in the list is our responsibility as a government to make preparation for all possible outcomes right we're going to negotiation we don't control the whole thing by far and away the highest probability is plan a or some variant of it namely a comprehensive free trade deal you are acknowledging very publicly there is a real risk of what's known as the cliff edge we walk away without a deal and some people say that's a catastrophe even to contemplate that if you know it's not attached me to contemplate things you get you ought you contemplate things so that you either avoid them or you mitigate but where we say walk away with that not be a catastrophe you went out on the street today and said to the ordinary member of the public should the government prepare for all outcomes they would say of course if you had to describe the chances and percentage terms of getting a deal what would you do I don't intend to go down that route the aim of my department is to deliver plan a in two years time the world's eyes will be on this building in Brussels whatever the outcome for Britain and the EU in March 2019 it will make history there are both short and long term economic factors which mean the Britain is likely to thrive and to succeed provided we take the right decisions provide we approach these negotiations and indeed provided we approach the world or the right attitude you will see the results the negative results one would say sooner or later but I believe rather sooner than later don't believe that this is not going to hurt you it will hurt you and that's why it is such a stupid decision to take I think this is a defining moment and brexit has been a crossroads for politics and what matters now is the way ahead and I think the political divide will be between those that believe in a collaborative cooperative approach with our EU partners in other words changing the relationship not severing it and those that want to sever it and walk off completely and that's the real battle that now lies ahead we want the best for Europe we want a new approach they want us that they're at the table for so many reasons there are so many things that we do together that we will continue to do together

Brexit – James O'Brien destroys Jacob Reese-Mogg and Boris

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James O’Brien went with a hammer to the arch pro brexit leaders Jacob Reese-Mogg and Boris Johnson after their u-turn on the withdrawal agreement.

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Jacob Riis milk is allowed to change his mind publicly describe it himself as treachery given the front page of The Daily Mail as a form of sort of may are called par you down in Woking though mate you've got a stick by a decision you made three years ago when you knew a fraction of what you know now how the hell is that fair I think it's probably important to get everything absolutely clear don't you we're discussing it's a little personal today we're discussing people rather than politics and policies we're discussing the conduct of two politicians Jacob Riis MOG and Boris Johnson vying with each other for the title of most morally corrupt and when you consider how crowded the field is on the side of so-called arch brexit errs and you'd realize what an achievement it is to have been whittled down to the final two and the reason for these contemplations and conversations is very very simple they are both now poised to support a withdrawal agreement they may not and for the record resmoke still sort of whining about the DP Johnson presumably still calculating everything according to what's most likely to advance his own ambitions but they are publicly flirting with the idea and resmoke even more so at this point than Johnson so I think it's important to remind ourselves precisely what they think about the legislation they're now poised to vote for it doesn't actually matter what only think about it and what you think about it is today less important it's very important to be clear on what they think about the deal that they are now publicly lending support to okay so from the top people voted to leave they didn't vote for a deal this deal leaves us potentially tied into a customs union indefinitely subject to the European Court of Justice in certain areas potentially indefinitely and splits up the United Kingdom between Great Britain and Northern Ireland this is not a question of people like me letting you down it is of the Gov and having come up with a deal that does not deliver on the manifesto of 2017 or the referendum of 2060 everyone has a bad day let's cut to the chase well the ERG will you support her breaks a deal now of course I won't the breaks our deal is dreadful will you resign the whip no I'm not gonna design the whip the breaks that we were getting in the withdrawal agreement was not a proper brexit nothing is gonna be worse than what we were being offered oh let's have that one again and I promise I won't do too many repeats but that little killer line at the end there nothing is worse than what we're being offered balance when people are Edward in Salisbury need to give their head a wobble this honorable man is describing what he's doing as the worst of all available options including remaining in the European Union something that Boris Johnson has explicitly described as better than the terms of the deal he's now thinking of voting for so once more with feeling let's cut to the chase well the EOG will you support her brexit deal now of course I won't her breaks a deal that's dreadful will you resign the whip no I'm gonna design the whip the breaks that we were getting in the withdrawal agreement was not a proper breakfast nothing is gonna be worse than what we were being offered hmm well at least he's always been loyal to the leader and the government looks very likely that the government will lose the withdrawal agreement and it's a bad agreement so that's a good thing it keeps us tied into European Union we'd pay 39 billion pounds for nothing very much and would split the United Kingdom between Northern Ireland and Great Britain so defeating the agreement is a good thing it's almost as if and this is of course the party's pill to swallow for the forelock tugga's and the capped offers it's almost as if he's not very bright isn't it that it is not so much the vassal state anymore as the slave states in this arrangement we can only leave the customs union with the permission of the European Union which is a worse situation than we're currently in hmm and what people who aren't very bright generally do when they're seeking to camouflage their lack of understanding is is reach for extreme language like the language you just heard but you know it's not just Jacob its vassal state stop we are going to for the first time in a thousand this place this Parliament will not have a say over the laws that govern this country so I don't see how you can support it from the Democratic point of view I don't see how a unionist can support it and I don't see how you can support it if you believe in the political economic freedom of this country so if you ask my question am I gonna vote against it the real answer is yes hmm just just to be on the safe side we sure will that was Boris Johnson and not Rory Bremner but we got any more footage of him saying similar or possibly even identical stuff we're on the verge of making a historic mistake and in this we change course we are gonna stay in the customs union with a stay in the single market and we're gonna be rules takers and unless we junk this backstop we are gonna find the brussels has got us exactly where they want us that's a lie Brussels wants us in the European Union of course as full participating members what Boris Johnson revealed there and this is genuinely astonishing when you properly pause to contemplate it well Boris Johnson is describing there is the United Kingdom being turned into precisely the nation that they claimed we were when they were persuading us to leave the European Union this idea that we are beholden to externally imposed rules regulations even laws this idea that we are powerless to promote our own voices and our own policies though that was a lie before the referendum but it worked because many people voted to leave this non-existent tyranny and now he's describing the withdrawal agreement that he's about to vote for in precisely the terms accurately now that he dishonestly deployed in a run-up to the referendum what specifically does he think about the deal he's now thinking of supporting I do think this is is dead and it's very important that that is recognized and you know the reason it's it's being defeated so heavily is it so evidently a bad deal for the UK mm-hmm there is of course some fear that what they are poised to do is vote for the withdrawal agreement in the hope of somehow later reneging on it which of course sends a message to the rest of the world that the entire country is as trustworthy as Johnson and resmoke hmm almost makes you wonder what their definition of democracy might be a this nonsense we would have to implement with no ability to change or resist that is not pragmatic that is not a compromise it is dangerous and unstable politically and economically my fellow conservatives this is not democracy and there it is we'll play that last one again because I want you to hear what Boris Johnson a man who still has designs on Downing Street thinks apparently and has publicly stated several times about a bill that he is now poised to support in this nonsense we would have to implement with no ability to change or resist that is not pragmatic that is not a compromise it is dangerous and unstable politically and economically my fellow conservatives this is not democracy so what is it then Oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three Roger and Paul thanks for your patience I'll be with you first up after the break after them it could of course be you question is having heard those eight excerpts from the public statements of these two men how do you feel if you were or possibly as the lad in Salisbury reminded us is is possible still are impressed by them seduced by them inspired by them how can you hold on to that when they're now going to vote for the things they told you were the worst available optioned it's a mystery isn't it it's not even Thursday yeah we will not support the deal it will turn us into a slave state its vassal state stuff it's a historic mistake it's a bad deal it's dead this is not a democracy all descriptions applied to tourism a so-called withdrawal agreement by two prominent advocates of brexit two extremely wealthy enemies of the elites I take a ridge monk and Boris Johnson so how come they get to do this and you don't get to change your mind given that you cast your vote nearly three years ago in circumstances that were far from optimal corruption criminality foreign interference and massive misrepresentation not to mention racists scare mongering in the guise of that there's more breaking-point posters so now that we can see a little more clearly and of course if you still think it would be a good thing to do I'd kind of get that in the sense of this feeling inside you that it is something to do with freedom that's been so successfully seeded by these chances it doesn't make you a bad person it makes them bad people as is proved by the fact that they are now telling you that the thing they described as the worst possible option is the thing that they're minded to support just talk me through your emotional and intellectual processes in dealing with this and you don't have to thank me for having prepared you for this betrayal and disappointment by pointing out repeatedly over the last three years that they were the Charlotteans in chief of the whole story project so what do you expect from charlatans like this Jacob Riis MOG and Boris Johnson people who would put themselves before their party and their party before the country Jacob Riis mugsy's and it has seen an opportunity to enrich himself while Boris Johnson sees the opportunity to empower himself you know Boris Johnson you know in a way Boris Johnson and Jacob Riis MOG are quite similar but while MOG has remained something of a rarity or an unknown I should say over the last number of years and just really came into existence for a lot of people do to brexit Boris Johnson has existed on the on the political stage for much longer and not on the political stage I should say but on the public stage Jacob Riis monk has been someone more in the background but Boris Johnson has been you know writing in newspapers his personal life has been exposed to the public for many many years and people continually defend him and support him you know at least with Jacob Riis MOG he's someone who would put his his family maybe before his own interests in some gentleman style legacy tradition but birth Johnson is not that type Boris Johnson is willing to throw his own family under a bus if it if it serves his own interests and his interest seems to be at the moment to become Prime Minister now the idea of Boris Johnson being Prime Minister's is not laughable there is a strong possibility that he could become Prime Minister and while he has stood at the sidelines you know throwing eggs and throwing tomatoes in the sense at the people who are trying to work out some agreement with the European Union what I'm talking about people within the u.s. the British government if he was Prime Minister he would actually he would actually have to go to Brussels and negotiate now can you imagine that can you imagine Boris Johnson going to Brussels to negotiate the future of the UK I think he would return with his his ass handed to him he's not of the caliber to negotiate such important and ground you know ground changing policies but worst Johnson is interesting because he's a type of person who's willing to put everything apart everything after him in the sense that if you look back where he was willing to when he was mayor of London he said I'm willing to lie down in front of the bulldozers to stop the second runway of Heathrow and when the vote came when the important vote came for him for him to be with the people he wasn't even in the country never mind you know he wasn't after the site where the people were protesting he was in another country he was in Singapore I think it was he had escaped the country because he didn't want to face the wrath of the people and he had lied to them he said I would defend you to the very end and he threw them not under a bus / almost under a bulldozer so how someone can continue to support someone like him and believe the things he says this is the perfect example of him you know he says at the beginning of the referendum the withdrawal agreement is a disaster it would be worse for the UK than staying in the European Union and now he's turning around and voting for it why because it serves his interests he's he's realized I think look if I want to be Prime Minister I can't stay on the outside you know throwing stones at the Glass House I have to get I have to go inside I have to try and show that I have some sort of leadership I can't continually resist the inevitable I have to work with it and it's he's not doing it from a pragmatic viewpoint he's doing it because he sees it as a springboard to become a prime minister now Jacob Riis MOG is a bit more dubious in a sense because he's doing it for a different reason I think he's afraid that brexit is not going to happen and if there is some type of a soft brexit maybe there's a possibility of a harder brexit later on I don't know but whatever his motivations are I can guarantee they're not they're not based on the interests of the British people more on the interests of Jacob Riis MOG

Brexit – Brexiteer refuses to answer question 15 times

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Shelagh Fogarty speaks with a leading member of the ERG (pro Brexit wing of the Tory Party). She asks him the same question 15 times and fails to get an answer.


there's a famous interview from about 20 years ago between Jeremy Paxman from the BBC and the politician where Jeremy Paxman asks the same question about 20 times he continually asked the politician for a yes-or-no answer and the politician continually avoids the s or no answer and goes off on a tangent here's an example of a politician incapable of answering the question but this time instead of whatever Jeremy Paxman was talking about this is about brexit and there seems to be a correlation between in in capability to answer normal questions political questions and particularly brexit questions or isn't anything like a majority in parliament for sitting pretty while no deal gets closer and closer but there could be a majority for those other versions of brexit that you find so distasteful if they were to triumph what would your move the ER Gees move be what would your response to that be so the issue with those other ones is that so for example the Norway style deal or a customs union none of those the things that the EU would agree without the context of a withdrawal agreement anyway so I think it's to be honest pretty odious we've we don't know that for certain do we because the the the the last time there was talk of the withdrawal bill who withdraw a deal being reopened it was for a difficult change relating to the backstop if we we don't know you don't know I don't know if we go to the EU and say actually what we need to shoehorn in here is a softening of brexit that that's a different matter from the EU perspective isn't it well we have negotiated for a long time over this one I don't think very well at all and what they've come up with is actually a form of customs union which which leads inevitably towards an incredibly bullet it leads really to a quasi remain type deal anyway which is why it is so unacceptable well you're describing again to me what you don't like about it and I'm clear on what you don't like about both the softer brexit versions and the existing withdrawal deal but what would you do if they triumphed well I think it would be as I said in my classic design what would you do well if you're in the EA then you've got freedom of movement you've got rule taking so industries like our City of London would be decimated you're telling me you're telling me things the customs unions we would have to take rules from the yeah what would you do well it would be impossible for the government to carry on in this what would you do what would you do I I would want to side with the people who put their trust in us no but that looked like you're doing in Parliament like you doing in Parliament we we need to take each each day as it comes and each step as it come you're one of those people without a plan aren't you I will vote no we we have a very well thought through plan and we are very tell me about it tell me about it what does your plan say about the eventualities of softer brexit prevailing in Parliament next week what does the ERG do then what does your plan say about that eventualities the law is that we leave at the end of next week and is attempting to avoid that eventualities and they come up with an alternative that the EU will accept what do you do about that it didn't it won't be able to change the law in the next week it's not a week now it's three weeks or more well I disagree with that the law is that we leave at the end of this week and that that is what we are working to we have a perfectly good plan that is the plan that the government should have adopted a long time ago Marcus I understand your position I just I'm trying to ask you what you would do in other eventualities and make no mistake Parliament is working hard for other eventualities you know that I know that everyone in Parliament knows that everyone in the country knows that what will you do if something you don't want prevails that's a hypothetical I I will focus on what the people want and what the people want is for us to leave at the end of next week not to go into some other thing which is remained by another name that will be something that the people of this country just won't forgive and I don't think that that's a position that the Conservative Party should even think but it itself well it is isn't it if David Livingstone is having sincere meetings with MPs along those lines now that's exactly what the Conservative Party is doing well I think David Livingstone is somebody who has never believed in the referendum result and I am astonished that he's still in position because he shouldn't be what will you do well what we we will continue to vote down things that are unacceptable for the country I won't vote to put our country's head in a noose that is what the withdrawal agreement would be it's exactly the same with the single market in the customs union those are not leaving the EU that way lies electoral oblivion and Marxism and any Conservative government was involved in that has got rocks in

Brexit – James O'Brien Destroys Boris Johnson

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James O’Brien takes Boris Johnson down a notch with a severe critique of the Tory politician.

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or as johnson 53 million quid barely a blemish on his CV 53 million pounds yeah but it's Boris you know no Boris haha jolly hockey sticks yeah haha looks his hair it's such a card no it's 53 million pounds not only is it 53 million pounds of your money of mine but it is evidence of incompetence on a scale so immense that in almost any other walk of life it would have seen you consigned to oblivion for all eternity imagine for example a footballer who or goalkeeper who let in 53 goals in a single game would they play again do you think for that team an accountant who somehow managed to misplace 53 million pounds worth of his clients money a greengrocer who lost 53 million tons of apples I there is no comparable career in which you could preside over such catastrophic incompetence and I smell corruption without being in some way penalized look me in the eye and tell me all other political opinions aside look me in the eye and tell me that Boris Johnson is being treated in the same way that you would be if you performed your professional duties so appalling Lee go on look me in the eye and tell me that Boris Johnson has been properly held to account and scrutinized for presiding over the disappearance of 53 million pounds worth of public money you can't can you so why the flip are we still talking about him as a potential prime minister or a future leader of the Conservative Party there comes a point in a cult of personality where you realise the truth of that Donald Trump statement regarding what would happen if he shot somebody on Fifth Avenue it's terrifying to see that they understand it even somebody with the brain as bloated in as corrupt as Donald Trump's have you seen the footage of him forgetting everybody's names I'll try and play it to you I don't know if it works on the radio you kind of need to see the faces of the people he's sitting next to and call the wrong name repeatedly but when he said that thing I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue or not not lose a single vote Steve Bannon remember is now extending his fingers into British politics we know that he's had meetings with Jacob Riis mark and Daniel couch in ski the MP for Shrewsbury who's taken to lying on social media and refusing to take it down in a way that really does intrigue me almost as if someone said to him no trust me you can lie through your teeth and if you never apologize and never admit it was Rhys mug taken down that son article yet about WTO tariffs that it's the Sun with its pretty poor standards of integrity and accuracy under the current editor Tony Gallagher even even by that astonishingly low bar that article got withdrawn and revoked but Rhys mug left it on his Twitter account bannon's met both of them they're both lying in public and they're both apparently subscribing to the school of thought that says never explain never apologize and none of this mud will stick well I put it to you this morning that Boris Johnson is a fully paid-up member of the Steve Bannon school of doing politics he is essentially refusing to acknowledge or ever explain anything that he's ever done wrong remember when he was foreign secretary the only thing I can remember him achieving is making the plight of nazarene Sagara Ratcliffe and imprisoned British citizen in Iran worse imagine getting up in the morning as foreign secretary one of the great Offices of state and presiding over saying words out loud on the record that made the plight of an imprisoned British mother in a rogue regime in an enemy state worse an issue that's having a serious impact on politics at the moment is this cult of personality the idea that we holed up on a pedestal certain individuals not because of the policies that they push but because of their own persona or what people actually believe or think they actually are and if you look at Boris Johnson he's a typical example of this he's he's attempting to be the British Donald Trump and while you know on one side you'd look at that you go that's terrible why would anyone want someone like this there is a part of this society they're a part of the electorate that admire someone like this that look at him not as some corrupt self-serving individual but as someone who's willing to shake up the system to destroy the status quo and purse Johnson has managed to convince a lot of people that he is that when in reality he's not he's not he's just someone who wants power for himself money for himself and he in an attempt to satisfy his own narcissism he's willing to destroy his own country exam for example to do brexit nigel Faraj is another example someone who presents himself as an average Joe a man of the people but in reality flies around in private jets as a millionaire you know someone who attacks Europe in one moment but it's still happy to take the money from the method at the next moment people need to step away from people like this people need to avoid this partisan partisan politics where it's left or right or labor conservative whatever and look at policies look at okay who's pushing policies that are good for the country who are good for me and not focusing on these individuals because these individuals care only about themselves they don't care about ordinary people and no matter how much you attempt to follow them or try to appease these types of people at the end of the day they will look after themselves they don't give a crap about the electorate or the country or the people themselves

The Tories are tearing the UK apart | Owen Jones talks…

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Brexit campaigners promised voters they would have their country back, that they would take back control. But Theresa May’s hardline approach is going to tear this country apart. Already the SNP’s leader Nicola Sturgeon has fired the starting gun on a second Scottish independence referendum, some in Northern Ireland are agitating for an independence vote of their own and the UK is increasingly isolated from its closest neighbours, while cosying up to Donald Trump’s America. All of this against a backdrop of punitive austerity, a fall in living standards and what will be the longest squeeze in wages since the Napoleonic era. Still, at least we haven’t had to endure the chaos of an Ed Miliband government… Isn’t that right, David Cameron?

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politely the country is in a right old mess I mean honestly I've don't want to sound like one of these all the countries gone to the dogs but the country has gone to the dogs the Conservatives have plunged this country into an absolute show going to cut out the swear words there but you know what I'm saying [Applause] why am I saying this well they would have found this sir heaven forbid but the conservative party made the decision during the last general election campaign do you remember that campaign I still wake up in cold sweats think about that campaign and they made a decision to say that basically a Labour government would unleash chaos it would be an absolute disaster it would imperil our country so I caught the tweet you might remember the interviewed with Ed Miliband that David Cameron wrote on the eve of the Latin election I mean it's just like to go up it imagines the calamity that would have performed in this nation if the Conservatives at lost the general election thank God you've got stability you can't walk the similar to what stability coming out of our ease at the moment it's like balling and stable Britain at the moment so where we are as a country well we're more bitterly divided than at any point since World War two that's available err Scotland on the verge of succeeding the Northern Ireland peace process is at risk were increasingly isolated with our nearest neighbors who were increasingly fed up with us and there's very little intention to give us a good deal plus the fact we're now heading apparently for hard brexit we'll turn this into some sort of weird tax haven with basic social provision ripped away having gone through the longest falling wages for workers of the 19th century to have asked for start falling again which will mean the longest squeezing wages since Emperor Napoleon the Emperor of the French in the beginning of the nineteenth century lemonade Cameron back in the day cuddly pumping around the Arctic the Huskies willing to give hoodies a good old hog and in rural as well always a new liberal face of conservatism now it came to power and decided at the revised history about wives crisis envelops Britain – to do the spending on schools and hospitals talking back to every single penny – spending that history has to be revised the Conservatives will be spending the same as the Labour Party although we hope to spend it a great deal better under a Conservative government those services would not be cut indeed the money would increase I'm not saying the anger and disillusionment of communities in this country was caused by the Camrys under successive governments when the factory zone where industries were trashed and the communities that depended on them suffered as a consequence new labour despite some good things they need failed to properly reverse a lot of that damage so a lot of these communities were already feeling a bit like you've screwed us over we're not happy with you and a lot of those communities as we know went on to vote for leave in the e referendum a sign of massive disenchantment in large part where housings were and the cuts from that squeeze and living standards on the Conservatives made their situation worse and obviously made them even more likely when they had a ballot paper which said do you want to vote for the status quo or not to vote leave now the only kind of course proposed the Neely referendum not because they thought let's just solve this issue for the country's sake didn't think that you just thought I've got these angry that benches nipping at my heels better find some way of locating them which he then did you kept going on about how bad immigration was he didn't talk about in any positive way it was a problem for the gal with net migration to this country will be in the order of tens of thousands each year not the hundreds of thousands every year that we've seen over the last decade guess what didn't come anywhere near his target in fact way over the target and that had this the worst of both worlds where he's saying immigration is a bad thing immigration continues in fact increased in some periods of the time he was Prime Minister and then lots of people were like yet immigrations bad but it's not going down despite their promises that makes me even angrier with politicians and makes me want to punch them in the face even north which they did so then the camera is suggested that you know winning is a go shaking with the EU before the referendum happened to get deals put to the public I mean right no dust arguments no pretending that Britain couldn't survive outside the EU of course we could and then drawing the referendum immediately said Armageddon will be at least peace in Europe would be threatened and all sorts of economically ruinous things would happen you will fundamentally damage our economy we will be voting potentially for a recession and you put a bomb under our economy if you swing from saying Britain all define outside you YouTube the world will end people might think I don't really believe him so because of all those miscalculations Britain voted to get Ally David Cameron now claims sure he won't join the evening but that's not what he said before because his colleagues in the Conservative Party made a tactical decision to wage an inflammatory xenophobic and immigration campaign they stirred up huge tension so you legitimized xenophobia racism we've ended up with this angry bitter divided nation people of Scotland voted against leaving the EU and that alter all of this the fact you know Theresa May who's not trying to placate Scotland not try to bring them on board but instead basically gone like it a lump it you're leaving me you and it's going to be a hard Brett fit thank you very much we're getting out the single market brexit me brexit now a lot of people in Scotland who voted against leaving thinking today no sign up for this not only are they stuck on very very right-wing government which they don't elect most cops but equally they're going didn't did eventually you either that we really want to stay in now we're getting thrown even out the single market so basically the very future of this country now is at stake I will note eke the steps necessary to make sure that Scotland will have a choice at the end of this process a choice of whether to follow a hard break sit or to become an independent country in the last referendum campaign support for independence was about 28% at the beginning of the referendum campaign by the end of it it was 45 percent this time some polling suggests 50 percent the Scots already support independence what's going to happen is this right-wing Tory government continues what's going to happen when it's clear we're heading for a harbor exit or even no deal at all turning this country in some tax haven with social provision decimated these are the people of Scotland are going to go sign me up so we've got a situation where the conservative and unionist party to give the vessel and correct title and now by the looks of things heading towards unless something changes the dismantling of the Union itself happily met it is a bit of a mess isn't it it's not bad work for Celia Cameron and for me to make less less than two years we're not even at the anniversary in the general election if might has been achieved in this space of time what's gonna happen in the next two years or so I'm it's ironic isn't it this whole kind of tourism is often about your dreams and decline will turn it around will be great without paraphrasing Donald Trump but we're heading towards the Communists ever-smaller inward-looking nation with bigotry xenophobia running rampant because of official sanction so much of the political and media elite whereas we're increasingly ostracized by our closest neighbors instead we're going to go often you know hold hands with Donald Trump's United States of America is about really the kind of future we're looking forward to your future of decline in every sense of isolation the bigotry of the country falling apart that is I'm afraid the conservative promise a Conservative Party presiding over decline and stagnation isolated in the world I think there's got to be an alternative to that so I mean see pessimistic maybe the country has a great future maybe I'm being alarmist maybe I'm not being alarmist enough who knows I want to hear what you think how do we get out of this mess is not square now in as it contributes all these growing ever more bitter at decisions how will history look back at this and I want to hear some proactive suggestions make me feel more cheerful cheer me up this is operation Timmy Ock selfish so leave your comments as ever below the line subscribe I'll see you next time

U.K. in Crisis: Facing No Deal, Parliament Votes on Brexit After Rejecting May’s Plan for Third Time

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With a deadline for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union fast approaching, the British Parliament will vote today on a series of options for Brexit after rejecting Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan for the third time on Friday. The U.K.’s exit date for leaving the EU is April 12. Among the options on the table are remaining in the EU customs union, a soft Brexit and a second referendum—all ideas May has rejected in the past. We speak with professor Priya Gopal, a university lecturer in the Faculty of English at the University of Cambridge. She calls Britain’s decision to leave the EU a “deeply neoliberal … free market, disaster-capitalist project.”

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this is democracy now the war and peace report I'm Amy Goodman we begin today's show with the ongoing political chaos in the United Kingdom where Parliament is preparing to vote today on a series of options for exiting the European Union after rejecting Prime Minister Theresa May's brexit plan for the third time Friday Friday was supposed to be the day the UK left the European Union now the exit date is set for April 12th with the deadline fast approaching and still no deal Parliament is scrambling to come up with a deal backed by a majority among the options on the table or remaining in the EU customs union a soft brexit and a second referendum all ideas prime minister May has rejected in the past this is may speaking Friday after her deals defeat the implications of the houses decision are grave the legal default now is that the United Kingdom is due to leave the European Union on the 12th of April in just 14 days time that is not enough time to agree legislate for and ratify a deal and yet the house has been clear it will not permit leaving without a deal and so we will have to agree an alternative way forward the European Union has been clear that any further extension will need to have a clear third purpose and will need to be agreed unanimously by the heads of the other 27 member states ahead of the 12th of April it is almost certain to involve the United Kingdom being required to hold European parliamentary elections Monday on Monday this house will continue the process to see if there is a stable majority for a particular alternative version of our future relationship with the EU of course all of the options will require the withdrawal agreement Mr Speaker I fear we are reaching the limits of this process in this house [Applause] this house has rejected No Deal it has rejected no brexit on Wednesday it rejected all the variations of the deal on the table and today it has rejected approving the withdrawal agreement alone and continuing a process on the future this government will continue to press the case for the orderly brexit that the result of the referendum demands if the British Parliament fails to agree to a brexit deal by April 12th the UK will crash out of the European Union with no deal a scenario that would have severe economic and political repercussions over the weekend a petition asking the British government to revoke article 50 and remain in the EU reach six million signatures the European Parliament's brexit coordinator Guy Verhofstadt tweeted quote brexit is not a bad April Fool's joke but a tragic reality for all our citizens and business it's now 5:00 to midnight today MPs must find a compromise and stop the chaos this evening for once voting YES instead of every time voting No well for more we go to Cambridge England where we're joined by Professor Priya Gopal professor Gopal is a university lecturer in the Faculty of English at the University of Cambridge welcome back to Democracy Now it's great to have you with you with us professor Gopal first for people outside of Britain wanna explain what was voted down on Friday and then talk about what's happening today okay so on Friday pretty much all the options on the table I think there were eight options were vote it down so revoking article 50 and not leaving the European Union was voted down crashing out of the European Union was also voted down Teresa Mays deal which she brought back from Brussels was voted down for the third time it's coming back for a fourth time this off this evening so that pretty much anything that gives any sort of clarity as to what Britain's future relationship with the EU might be has been voted down and we're having another votes this evening I think there are nine options on the table this time and again there is no clarity as to which option will win out Teresa may will try again to get her deal through but it seems very unlikely that she will get the 30 odd votes that she needs to make that happen let's go to opposition Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn speaking Saturday about Prime Minister May's handling of brexit she was supposed to brought the vote on December the 11th pulled it put it at the end of January and lost by the largest-ever majority of governments defeated in parliamentary history brought it back again then again there's now going to apparently try again next week this is beyond ridiculous there is a clear proposal there that we negotiate a customs union with Europe which will then protect the whole issue of the border in Northern Ireland that we negotiate trade access and above all a dynamic protection of Rights so we don't fall below Europe on it was I suspect there's a whole agenda there in the Tory party which would want to see workers rights and consumer rights environmental protections diminished we'll put our proposals again to Parliament next week can you talk about Jeremy Corbyn in the Labour Party's position on this professor Gopal the Labour Party has six tests which it has put in place for any deal that the you and Britain will have and the most important aspects of those six tests are the customs union which Corbin spoke about in the clip that you just add and the other is what they call a close relationship to the single market essentially they want to keep all the benefits of being in a customs union and in a single market without necessarily being formally in a single market so the Labour Party position is one that essentially wants to keep several of the advantages of being in the European Union but ending I think because Britain won't be in a single market ending freedom of movement as it currently stands we do know that the Labour Party conference has agreed that if new version of brexit passes then there will be there is a commitment to a second referendum but I think currently Jeremy Corbyn is preparing to work for a general election and his focus is on getting his version of a brexit deal through it's one that he believes will command agreement within the EU grace Blakely is the economics commentator at the New Statesman her recent column is headlined the European project has far bigger problems than brexit and she writes quote for every step forward European leaders have taken since the financial crisis they've taken two steps back while many worried about China showing global growth and an Odile brexit the truly existential questions the EU faces are internal and they're all about power who will pick up the tab for economic stimulus Financial Stability and industrial strategy northern European states big business or southern Europe impoverished citizens who makes policy unelected bureaucrats the European Parliament or Member States and who'll determine the future of the bloc should the UK leave Germany France or Brussels can you comment on her comments I think that it is important to remember that there is a European Parliament and there are elected MEP is members of the European Parliament so I think it's quite possible to overstate the extent to which there is no contribution to decisions made by the EU and what we know is that the EU's worst policies it's more neoliberal policies have in fact been contributed to by Britain it seems clear that the EU is a neoliberal it is a capitalist institution it comes with many of the problems of contemporary capitalism and it's institutions but the question on the table I think is what are the options if you want to leave the EU which is the sort of left so called legs it or left a brexit position then one would do so for something that is not neoliberal and that is not capitalist and that does allow for greater democratic say but the options that brexit has put forward are I'm afraid not that it is a question I think of staying within the EU and actually being able to reform it from within or returning to Britain where brexit is an extremely ideologically driven a deeply neoliberal in in some ways free markets disaster capitalists project so it seems to me that there are many problems with the EU and nobody who's progressive can deny that there are no problems with the EU but the question is what is the alternative and if you leave the EU you're not actually doing that for greater democracy or for greater social justice you're actually capitulating to what is if what I would definitely describe as a far-right project both economically and socially where desire land fit into this picture professor Gopal well Ireland is a key question are the Irish border the soft border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland was a hard-won victory for the peace process the pressure to in fact return to a hard border from certain sections of the brexit earing ideologues I think is extremely dangerous and there are people who have pointed out people in the Republic of Ireland who have pointed out that and he returned to a hard border in that region might well presage a return to something like the troubles of 30 years ago it seems to me that there is a real light with which that border is being treated and that the all the I guess the maneuverings around the backstop and the rejection of the backstop and the whole question of removing the soft border I think there's a real dereliction of historical understanding about how that border came into place and what has actually resulted in a successful peace process and undermining the Good Friday Agreement is I think one of the more deleterious effects of a hard brexit and that is something that we should all be worrying about are you calling for a second referendum let me phrase this carefully I think that any deal that Parliament comes up with today whether that is a soft brexit whether that is no brexit whether that is a hard brexit or whether in fact it is no deal I think that the decision should be returned to the British people and I say this for two reasons I think that any deal that substantially changes Britain's relationship with the EU should in an exercise of democratic rights be returned to the people for a vote I also say because I think there are very serious questions about the leave campaigns role in the first referendum and there are questions about the extent of disinformation and extent of electoral problems you know to put it very mildly well electoral breaking of electoral regulations by the leave campaign in the lead-up to the 2016 referendum so it seems to me quite important to take these essentially life-altering decisions back to the British people there were hundreds of thousands perhaps a million people on Saturday and London pushing for a second referendum who went out into the streets one of the largest mass diamonds ever held there what exactly now would it mean if there was a Suffolk referendum how would it go forward there are obviously question marks about that and it isn't very clear exactly what the questions would be and what are the questions would be simply asking for an opinion on any deal that was proposed or whether it would also include the position of remaining of Continuing in the European Union by revoking article 50 it seems to me that any referendum now should lay out a range of options voting on a deal and also giving people the option of remaining in the European Union six million people have signed a record-breaking petition asking for article 50 to be revoked now obviously that can't be done on the basis of a petition but it suggests that there is a strong enough feeling in this country that the decision of 2016 needs to be rethought in the light of new information and in the light of what is essentially a failed negotiation process by Teresa mais government so given that there is a move towards changing the referendum outcome of last time I think it is something that must be put back to the people finally what do you think the media should be asking right now I think that the media needs to ask two things I think it needs to ask tougher questions about how the referendum of 2016 was conducted it needs to you know really it should have by now asked more probing questions about the kinds of misinformation that was circulating by the leaf campaign in the lead-up to that referendum it should also be asking questions and I'm very surprised that this is not being done we know that the electoral has find the leaf campaign for violations of electoral law and the leaf campaign has essentially accepted that fine and is going to pay it now this is quite serious we now have Electoral Commission's judgment that there were electoral process violations by the leaf campaign we also know that some of the key funders of the leaf campaign are under investigation by the police and by the National Crime Agency so again as in the u.s. situation there are questions about where the money came from who used the money whether there has been interference from outside and what kinds and and potential criminal violations and it seems to me that the media really ought to be pursuing these questions with much greater vigor than they have been so far Priya kapow and thank you for being with us and yeah university lecturer at the Faculty of English at the University of Cambridge we will continue of course to follow what happens with brexit with the votes later today this is democracy now when we come back what's happening at the border and precedents Trump's threats to close the border and cut off funding to the northern triangle countries stay with us you

Boris Johnson Full Interview – Peston on Sunday

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Watch the full interview with the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson from Peston on Sunday 14/05/17.

The official Youtube channel for Peston on Sunday. We are live on ITV, Sunday mornings at 10am. #Peston #GE2017

I've got I've got to cut your African foresters apparently look at my name so I think more from Jess and Nick later Ross absolutely thrilled to be joined by the Foreign Secretary who's not playing by the rules okay anyway love it to you and now you're on Nicholas sends your esteemed colleague says what you've announced all Prime Minister has announced on social care is the beginning of a process of sorting out do you think that's right or is just because the dumps out of there I think we can be happy with the policy say I think what cynically say was absolutely right which is this is necessary we face another two million people over the age of 75 in the next ten years we have to do something about the huge cost of Social Care I think it's a mark of trees amaze bravery and candor with the electorate that she is doing this and you're right the way lake according to them to nature I'll show you right about strength and purpose that she will bring to everything she does if we are reelected and in particular of course to the brexit negotiations I think there is a fundamental contrast in this election between two the two candidates who can conceivably be Prime Minister now and having relevant contrast is who do you trust who do you really want to confide in to handle those all-important brexit negotiation gap but if you think that some people want people wanting honestly immersion here thanks now they went through my notes you'll know what's coming next which is was the cabinet consulted on this policy before they put in the manifesto I think this is the right policy now in an answer I'm supporting clay secondly we're asked your opinion on it though all sorts of consultations about the the manifesto and what I would you wouldn't expect me to go into into detail but we need to do something we might expect they don't know you you certainly wouldn't but we need to do something to tackle the cost of Social Care and the crucial thing that as as Nicolas said people are going to be able to pop whatever happens people going to live in their own home they won't there have that anxiety taken away they'll be able to live in there and they will be able to pass on a minimum of a hundred thousand pounds to their kids not in the engine anyway this is a policy this is a policy that has been supported across the spectrum I saw Polly Toynbee my old friend Polly Toynbee saying she thought it was the right way it was brave and right and the progressive thing to do and I really think that the the way that Theresa May has handled this is a mark of her character and of her resolve and the determination that she brings to us and that is exactly just get to get back to my central point that is exactly what we need now that we are at a critical phase in the history of this country we have to get bricks it right I think it's a fantastic opportunity for Britain as I've argued with you before Robert but it has to be done right and I am genuinely alarmed by the idea that it could be handled in just 11 days after the election by Jeremy Corbyn this is a guy who doesn't know fine but we can get up we are going to come back to breaks it's they don't have any anxiety about that but I just what we need because this is the most controversial and the most eye-catching policy in the manifest I've just got to another couple of questions about it one is this point which is raised a lot with me that it is unfair that you have to pay but what could turn out to be a vast amount of your own savings if you suffer from dementia but if you have some other kind of illness like count so the state picks up a bill do you recognize why do you feel that but I do understand people's reservations and people's the questions that that people are asking about some of the details of this but the broad thrust is right as as Primus has said there will be a consultation on getting right but the broad trust has got to be to be brave to be resolute and to take on the problem and I think most people will think it reasonable that we could report the amount that you can pass on to your kids to from about 23,000 to 100,000 pounds and nobody will face the the terror of being forced to sell their home while they're alive and I think that is a very much thank you so I just decided before we move up this this subject this issue of whether the Prime Minister and the de Tory party is in a sense devaluing everything that older people have done in their lives by ending the triple largely not means testing they're talking to the mat you're talking about not only who extended free travel in London to six to twenty four hours a day and but you understand anxiety not sell it for old raise from one appearances and it is massively valued it's something that is very progressive that key to all the people in work we support it completely what we're trying to do is to address what I think everybody all sets all serious demographers acknowledge will be a massive problem of the costs of Social Care in the long term this is responsible grown-up conservative approach trying to deal with a long-term problem in a way that is equitable allows people to pass on a very substantial sum still to their kids and takes away the fear of having your home sold and now on the other big issue I think for many people of the campaign which is immigration are you very disappointed that you lost the argument with the Prime Minister on abandoning that tens of thousands time it could be absolutely clear about immigration Robert as I say there are two candidates at this election one of them Jeremy Corbyn is in favor of higher immigration and complete free movement he's he said in January and you know I do not for the life of me understand how he is supposed to go and sit at that table in Brussels on day one of the talks when he had to go to clue whether he wants to stay in the single market or all the customs uni doesn't want to be interactive eyes room and he has a completely unintelligible position on immigration but you know I mean they're going to look at him and they're going to head in for breakfast and I think it would be deep one where the aging was being whether they do or not do you personally believe the target of tens of thousands for net migration is a sensible target I certainly think that you need to get immigration down so turns out you need to have a sensible target or I think tens of thousands is a perfectly sensible time you don't think it'll damage Conley adult don't examine that way there is no nowhere at all that you can control immigration that you can control immigration if you have the approach of Corbin and the Labour Party and you say it simply does matter when when will emigrate and be in this country be tender so when we're able when it's back control well said to pictures out of 19 if you get a four to tens of thousands I'm not going to make any any predictions of when we're going to achieve it but what I can tell you is unless you have Teresa may able to deliver on that agenda and able to push through what the brief you've actually voted for June the 23rd last year and take back control of our immigration system you haven't got a prayer of achieving it and use me because Jeremy Corbyn is ideologically opposed to the whole shebang we haven't got long before the break so one quick one on this and then we'll come back to in a couple of minutes but you on this program we're very clear that you didn't want student numbers in the immigration figures again this is not really your manifest who is it you might be really disappointed about it that in my own students are still I'm Pro I think London is a grim that this country is a fantastic magnet for talent ins and for students and that will continue but you're not worried about you've all been different heard by last time I think while driving i beckoned downtown to files i may imply to them that i am not welcome you know i we this is a this is an economy that is hugely attracted to people from around the world matter we should take that as a compliment to the UK but it is perfectly reasonable to have control and that is what we want and you can't you can't achieve that if you go into these negotiations about the foggiest idea about what you want to achieve I'm afraid Jeremy called in clearly wants not only to raise immigration as you said but he doesn't know whether he wants to be seen down okay rather got more from virus after the break I'm like pirate of the day is still with me single greatest which other of a politician dog proposes his own approach doesn't he and he's bringing something new to I didn't anybody expected a president United States to have you know to keep tweeting in the way that he is but I think a lot of people find it quite refreshing quite interesting legacy these are the round unvarnished you know unpasteurized unhomogenized views of Donald Trump I these rallies idolized I would love to keep talking no not at all trains not a lot of talk in America that he will be impeached I think having someone looked at the protocol of how we behave in those circumstances when the impeachment process is going on with our loyalty bead to do it wouldn't be to the president wanted me to the legislature complicated stoutly it is but you remember we went through this with that we've Bill Clinton was impeached if you haven't call for his shenanigans with Monica Lewinsky as on in there and it was very clear what the interests of the UK were then we didn't know whether we you're about to have a Hugh Grant on your show who memorably made a speech I think in some film about how you know the British prime minister is perfectly at liberty to say something completely and distinction from the President of the United States we often disagree but are the things that we make where we're extremely strong but how would we maintain the relationship in those circumstances with the president and between present and treasom a would would continue to continue in a normal kind of way even if he were going hoping that poetry's it was was was reelected and but at all sorts of levels it is incredibly dense and intricate relationship you're doing I will semaphore on intelligent a rinky-dinky well said before Sam look II know that's really for the American people of American the American system but you know I think the my strong impression is that you know there's all sorts of plaster falling off the ceiling as a result of the style of that is government but actually when you look at the eulogy so he tweeted about it and you know everybody's worried well had been very worried about the u.s. approach on Iran actually thanks at least partly to British diplomacy the Americans not support the deal the nuclear deal with Iran where they're not moving away from that they haven't moved their their embassy to Jerusalem and in serial transmission to just just before the break it's it's very interesting that during about the they are doing things that Obama never did how much actually a lot of people liberals around the world and particularly in the in the Middle East I have a lot of time I'm a-gettin ordering what to bring about to me to the election i'm andrew roberts today at AXA torre manifesto for betraying the values of baldwin churchill all the great you've got me grandson heckling you there you know you couldn't have it you couldn't have a more effective and say audio you're not an ordinary pewdie ation of no no you're not also the horse's mouth i might suggest a new all this be grand so and pedro narrowing the gap between rich and poor you know tackling inequality this is stuff you're fully stands one nation Toryism understands the basic symmetry of an economy and of politics which is you got to have a strong economy and a dynamic at is creating robert could pay for the punch we carefully apologize i got a few like homework but we have a billion times more days and we've got on the right hand planner your language your love it and this goes to your your core interest we did ask our viewers to one question they wanted to ask you you'll not be surprised that most came back with why isn't the 350 million pounds for getting back in a way is not angel isaac not in the manifesto why did not in the manifesto who is not that my reasoning oh you said it there actually she said it at the launch of our manifesto she doesn't the only way to take me out you and you three said we were there literally laughing i'm lunatic lee absolutely i was supine way and running away or get away well I like the way that you're all being bossed around but it's just you being at these yes is the honest I tell you what down I'll tell you why but very her altar of secretary for I I'll tell you why there goes the contrast but anything that we can do to intensify the fundamental contrast of this election which is between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn that's the choice before the people of this country do they really want Jeremy Corbyn nagashi actually out there so I do Rinda lover to see bar it's like so much for cab again

The Guardian journalist who uncovered #CambridgeAnalytica scandal, being attacked on Andrew Marr

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#Unbelievable 😠😠

WATCH; The Guardian journalist Carole Cadwalla, who did most to uncover the #CambridgeAnalytica scandal, being attacked by #LeaveEU campaigner Isabel Oakeshott & Andrew #Marr

Carol you know a lot more about this than I do but I have tried to look at this as closely as possible and I don't actually see an unentangled bull link between Cambridge analytical and the Facebook troll on the one hand and the brexit campaign on the other there be lots of contact lots of finger touching but no real provable link no that's wrong Andrew you've got that very very wrong you've got because Cambridge analytic which we've seen the fallout of that this week we've seen what's happened link the provable link is through to this firm in Canada so we have a firm we had a company they say they're not linked with Cambridge analytic oh well oh God Christopher Wylie who I've spent a year working with to come forward can tell you absolutely categorically he helped set up Cambridge Alaska he helped set up baffling to most people I know I think you've done a fantastic job of investigative journalism here you've been incredibly persistent incredibly dogged but at the end of it all I think you've proved is that Cambridge analytical is a pretty dodgy and bad company I do not see on IATA of evidence so one iota of evidence that anything they may or may not have done had any impact whatsoever on the brexit Pope we should we should say also Isabelle you were part of leave Dottie you one of the to leave campaigns and again have been we know that Aaron banks was involved in that campaign was involved with one of the okay agenda it could be because we've seen them on the photograph together staring into mid-space there just isn't a conspiracy here I mean Karen I just feel that you're kind of chasing unicorn is there is very see it's big tech companies which are unaccountable and uncontrollable and we don't know what's going on and this has all happened inside Facebook I'm highly recommend forward next investigation you've talked about Chris Wally's wish the people watching he's the guy with the red hair did you know that he had pitch to vote leave I'm using the same he met with vote leaves strategist in the autumn before the referendum and he told Dominic Cummings the strategist Oh thoroughly about Cambridge analytic I think Jorge Ian had nothing to do with him to be as as the same went for leave taught you who also ended up didn't using them believe they hope not you who is proven we had somebody else come forward on Friday and say categorically Cambridge analytical work for leaves on the inside of the campaign they did not they did some work for you Kip that is not the same thing listen Kara I have one question for you and that is I think you've done a brilliant job are you going to investigation to the campaign just let me just jump into that because Dominic Cummings who we've talked about says that you are a passionate opponent of bricks that you've said tweets like breath stinks and all the rest of it and he's also said they promised Watergate and delivered a dodgy Zoolander so what's your message back to Dominic Cummings my message to Dominic Cummings it's a really really smart intelligent guy and he knows the power of technology he spent no I think it was 98 percent of the budget essentially went on online campaigning they know the power of digital they know the power of these Facebook ads that's why they spent all their money there so it's it's it's so where do you think this is going next I think where it's going next is we desperately have to look at our electoral laws we cannot at the moment there is absolutely our democracy depends upon controlling spending in elections and at the moment there is absolutely no way of controlling and enforcing err so we urgently need to review our legislation your investigation on remains spending I can't wait okay job we're gonna move

John Bercow explains use of casting vote to block Brexit indicative votes

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The Speaker has used his casting vote to block Brexit indicative votes after the first Commons tie in 26 years. Bercow said: ‘In accordance with precedent, and on the principle that important decisions should not be taken except by a majority, I cast my vote with the noes’
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the eyes to the right 310 the nose to the left 310 you the eyes to the right 310 the nose to the left 310 order in accordance with precedent and on the principle that important decisions should not be taken except by a majority I cast my vote with the nose the nose habit by casting vote 311 to 310 that is the proper way in which to proceed the rationale I say this as much with the benefit of new members as of others for the exercise of the casting vote is as I've said that it is not for the chair to create a majority that doesn't otherwise exist now the way in which the casting vote his exercise does also depend upon the stage at which a matter is being aired so for example it would be exercised differently or it could be and probably would be on the second reading of the bill where there is an important principle of encouraging further debate and it might then be used to send a bill into committee where it's not going to get to the statute book straight away but if it's the final stage of a bill the casting vote would be against and in a situation in which a decision would be made that a day would be allocated for particular business I judge that it's not right for me to make that decision if the house hasn't by a clear majority done so I hope that's clear and generally accept [Applause]


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BREXIT THE MOVIE is a feature-length documentary film to inspire as many people as possible to vote to LEAVE the EU in the June 23rd referendum.

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BREXIT THE MOVIE shows a side of the EU they don’t want us to see: the sprawling self-serving bureaucracy, the political cynicism, the lack of accountability, the perks, the waste, the cronyism, the corruption.

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one of the arguments put by the the in-crowd the remainders is oh well you know it takes a long time for Europe to come up with a free training room it's taken nine years come up with a free trade with Canada well it's a very good reason to leave in the globalized 21st century you don't need a trade deal to trade and yet they're still useful the question is are we more likely to have bigger and better trade deals inside the EU or outside let's add up the GDP of all the countries that have trade deals with the EU it comes to five trillion pounds golly that sounds a lot but look at Switzerland 29 trillion and what about tiny Singapore they've got trade deals worth 7 times as much as that you use and South Korea nine times Chile population eight million it's got 50 trillion unbelievable but let's cheat let's add to the EU pile the value of its own internal market as if it had a trade deal with itself it's still rubbish you can't throw a shipping container without hitting a country with better trade deals than the EU in fact if you're trying to avoid trade deals joining the EU is probably the best thing you can do the EU has got no trade agreement with China or India or Russia or the United States I mean is staggering that they haven't managed to achieve that of Britain's top ten non EU trading partners the EU has trade agreements in place with only two as far as trade deals go being part of the EU cuts you off from the rest of the world our history is AK raiding buccaneering history and back to Drake and Beyond and that's what we're good at at the moment our hands are shackled by being in the European Union we've got a much much better opportunity really for striking good trade deals if we're outside the EU than ever inside if we left the European Union we could very quickly establish free trade deals with the most dynamic parts of the world economy

Brexit – James O'Brien The Referendum was Illegal

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James O’Brien The Referendum was Illegal

The EU referendum was won based on a corrupt political campaign, but the courts can’t void the result because the referendum was only advisory, according to the barrister who took the government to court, Jessica Simor.

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may the Electoral Commission found very serious electoral offenses against levy you which was a subsidiary or organization in the in the vote but then most importantly in July against vote leaves the main campaign and it found that vote leaf had committed very serious electoral offenses and imposed maximum fine levels and referred them to the Metropolitan Police and then in October there was a judgment in the divisional court that found that the electoral commission had also given incorrect advice on what could be spent and the result of that is that effectively vote leaves spent about five hundred thousand more than it was entitled to spend and it spent that money in the last week of the campaign on a IQ and Facebook ads now the referendum was of course advisory so the question then was what was to resume going to do with that advice and she was absolutely sure that this the result was the Democratic will of the pizzas behaved as if it were binding she's exactly not a legal nicety to points out that it isn't well first it's not binding but secondly she's treated this as binding and the crucial point was that had it been binding it would have been voided by way of some statutory mechanism or under the common law so just this is the point and forgive me for being a bit slow on the uptake if the referendum any leave voters in particular still believe it was binding if the referendum had been legally binding then the findings of the electoral commission would have rendered it invalid well you would have expected Parliament to have legislated for a process right whereby would have been rendered invalid because if it's been corrupt Elida livered how on earth can we be held to it but because it was because it wasn't binding we can be held to something that was corrupt exactly three minutes a my head spinning already well our argument was that actually under the common law forget statute and in common law the the concept of democratic has a very clear meaning and it means legal i if you cheat it's not democratic and you've got to do it again and that's mirrored in the Venice Commission and international law so international law has effectively adopted the common law and said if there's mass cheating which that was which there was then the result will be voided so that's fascinating because because the will of the people is meaningless if the people were victims of corrupt practices or lied to exactly and the right to vote is not a right to tick a box it's a right to tick a box in a legal process because obviously ticking a box in a process that involves massive cheating is not worth doing so what we were saying was well we Prime Minister you acting reasonably cannot simply ignore this you've got to respond in some way you've got to at least acknowledge this has happened and do something about it either take it to another vote extend time put it to Parliament have a public inquiry what you can't do is simply say I don't want to know about this mmm this didn't happen and that was effectively our argument and that was dismissed so the court essentially found that the Prime Minister is not obliged to take account of the mounting evidence that casts doubt on the legitimacy of the referendum the High Court actually found that we were too late we were out of time so the High Court said we should have brought the claim within three months of the expenses having been lodged at the Electoral Commission which have been December 2016 or three months of notification but of course at that point nobody knew about any of this so we were in a copy of July that believe that 675 grand that suddenly popped up in the fashion student bank account exactly discovered well there was there were rumors around but certainly when she notified the Electoral Commission had in fact closed its investigation and judicial review had to be brought against the a commission to get them to reopen it which led to their result in July 2018 so we've actually been told we should have done something which was impossible and in fact would have failed at that point because it was impossible and we've also been told well Parliament's now in control which we know this week is not true in control of the thing that Fraser why keeps postponing exactly so Parliament's taking control of the process and we've also been told that administrative convenience requires that this sort of be let go off and and as I said to the court it is difficult to see how it is administrative leakin vini n't to treat an unlawful referendum as lawful so much for the will of the people if the result was delivered under fraudulent circumstances then it by right there should be another referendum one that strictly controlled one that is independently monitored to avoid any type of you know illegal tampering as what has happened in the past in the last referendum so another referendum that's completely watertight in its transparency and its levels of security where there is complete transparency of funds of of spending and of support for whether they be internal or external from the from the UK itself and the people have a vote again and it's a true say in the true sense the will of the people will be will prevail

Brexit Crime: Vote Leave finally admit breaking election laws in EU referendum

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The Andrew Marr Show 3 March 2019

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Oh Dan you are an incorrigible delinquents at times but that hangover for some of the leadership candidates might be quite tricky as storing the observer this morning vote leave the campaign that led the referendum debate to and for us to get out of the European Union which of course was led by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove have dropped their appeal against the finding that they broke electoral law by pushing the rules and spending in a way a lot more than they were allowed to 675 thousand pounds more than they were allowed to it's a big big break it's a big break and they were fine four hundred thousand pounds and at the time they said they would appeal it they're very cross about how they believe the electoral commission operated but Boris Johnson and Michael Gove of course were front and center in that campaign it was denied they did anything wrong or even necessarily if the political leaders knew anything about it but I know later in the program you've got Keyes Lister who was involved in that too and I just think this is quite interesting because it was my colleague Carol Cadwaladr who broke this a year ago with a whistleblower called Shamir sunny and I interviewed them on Friday for a piece we're doing this week and he has had a terrible year as a result of that whistleblowing he was outed as gay his family didn't know about it he lost his job he's still struggling at the moment and I think in many ways this vindicates the position that they took in the first I mean sitting at home thinking I was right all along yeah okay well let's move on Mexican straightens in Parliament Square this week which we were talking about also this week we saw vote leave dropping its appeal against the Electoral Commission's findings that it's over spent during the referendum campaign the former Labour MP Giesler Stewart was chair of vote leave and joins us from Birmingham Keyes list you at first of all you saw the anger outside Parliament this week who do you blame for the fact that we are not outside the EU today I think once Parliament had put a difficult decision to the people and then promised to implemented I think we have to blame Parliament and the individuals many of them are acting with it with absolute best of intentions but collectively they have shown themselves incapable of delivering what they promised to do and I think that the problem and during the paper review you had that sort of very interesting Berkey and debate in there our MPs delegates or as Burke said do you elect me for your judgement but even Burke subsequently was deselected by his constituencies so I think in our representative democracy when when we have no effective government which is what we've got at the moment we resolve those problems by general elections constituent ease can vote for the candidates parties decide who their candidates are and we get a new set of people coming into Parliament and I simply cannot see any other way out of the current situation than the general election now Dominic Cummings who you worked with very closely during this campaign blames in particular Tory brexit ears in the ERG he called them this week the narcissistic delusional subset of the ERG useful idiots for remain do you agree with him I find that we've reached the point where name-calling on either side really doesn't get us anywhere and both sides are doing this and I would just say to them stop it if you're a boat out there or if you're running a business you're trying to conduct your life and you've watched two and a half years of MPs being unwilling to make compromises then I think you get pretty fed up and we have seen that the last vote for tourism AIDS withdrawal agreement even people like me who really did not this was not the deal I really wanted at the end but if I'd still been an MP I would have said look this is as good as gonna get and they've got to make a decision that either gonna start falling in behind her deal manage getting their way out or say we want a different set of players vote leave broke the law according to the Electoral Commission in a serious way this week vote leave dropped its appeal against that decision why I think what it shows is that we have been outspent at every stage of this process whether it was before the referendum started and the government spent nine point four million on a leaflet during their campaign actually if money was the question the collectively the remain science spent more and going to Appeals costs money – yes for a second and Ruth there's one other point if people now who argue for a second referendum if you had a campaign where we honestly always tried to be rule compliant we had a compliance committee and every other organization across boat has been found wanting in some states you didn't try very hard because you overspent the tune of six hundred and seventy five thousand pounds a huge amount of money which the Electoral Commission thought was a very very serious electoral offence you broke the law it happened under your watch in this organization will you apologize to people with that now it was in relation of one particular donation where the Electoral Commission interpreted the rules as have being acting in in concert which we we had got legal advice which said it wasn't so the key question is Andrew if anybody wants a second referendum then the referendum legislation as it stands underway in electric Commission and the information Commission interprets them that law needs rewriting and that was something what you also have to face nevertheless the Electoral Commission is trusted by many people at the time of their original judgement vote leave said it was wholly inaccurate and contains false accusations that do not stand up to scrutiny do you stand by that statement I felt that we our biggest problem in the end was that we destroyed all our data and therefore some of the evidential bases which people were asking for all I can tell you Andrew he said at every stage in terms of the processes we did our level best to be in compliance with the rules if they were interpreted afterwards in a way which was different from the advice we got at that time then so be it the regulator's always the final word you destroyed the data the Election Commission were very upset that you did not cooperate more clearly with them at the time do you understand why many people in this country on the other side of the argument feel that this referendum in 2016 was corrupted and cannot be trusted because of the way vote leave behaved well the electric Commission never sought any evidence from the people from the motive campaign but let me say something else after turn off Twitter but no they didn't they we offered more evidence but but Andrew if this was based which is people are now saying on a lie that people didn't know what they were voting for that they're somehow were unaware of what the destroyed was well the opinions would have changed opinions have not changed opinions have hardened and the wondering which we still haven't done is actually looking what what remain in the context of the rest of the European Union would mean I'm not asking about the lie what people thought but we both know that in elections and referendums the amount of money spent really matters that affects the number of adverts people see things that come through their door and how they're for how they think and how they react six hundred and seventy five thousand pounds is a huge amount of money to overspend as it were by accident I ask you one more time for all those people watching who are really upset by this can you apologize to them for that by the mistake or witting breaking of the law what I say is that at every stage we were a rule compliant according to the legal advice we were given at that time and if money was the question remain spent by far more money on the campaign then leave did the government spend more money on the campaign than we did so do not say this was a question of money this is why I say the rules should have been much clearer we're a compliance committee we were as our legal advice was always that that was the right thing to do if with hindsight the compliance that the the regulator's found otherwise the regulator has the last word using the Stewart thanks very much indeed for talking to us


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23rd June is a people’s march in Parliament Square to break Brexit, will you be attending?

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dissipates into nothingness sir Israa gnarly the best player in the world here's Frank which is renowned in the best player in the world yes oh well I'm gonna agree as well and I want a clock he's gonna show again let it sink let it down that yesterday Oh singin Portugal and then come back and show you guys where we opportunist to the widow walk they don't make me see words W man okay the latest is I'm gonna be sued by Google Maps we showed a cameo of a Google map on our video so there it is are you gonna get for it Morocco's out we will be watching Jurassic world layer this time you're gonna hang out on Miz again today guys with me we'll split up to us Big Ben check it out you know one thing I want to say about London is it's a very beautiful city but it comes to like traveling in it feels like it's a lot to spend but really you got to be here every day really easily as this new face it's blue every day [Applause] so they were candy here so I never knew Gandhi had a statue we here the main part of Westminster big band has a party that looks like they're fixing it it looks like everyone got to stay in the EU or at least everyone here anyway I think it's for the UK okay environment and gives me a speech about how we should march for people and like no one knows about this even I didn't know there was something going on today she gave me about these badge and stuff we make our mind up one thing that they want to change it next it's crazy talking politics man I don't even like talking politics it's been that way before it's not my family came here first before and you know I want people to have the same chance to June 23rd though if there's an upvote going on why not dissipates into nothingness sir you've got a lender that I think I did anyway yeah I actually didn't when you set up a leader you kept my first will hold on what do you reckon the votes gonna happen again they can read for real yeah I think I think it's the least we can ask the 16 million people who voted tonight there will exactly subsequently I think all the kids here burn up there were 16 at the time at the time I was 22 yeah they say you know I had some friends and a few we're going to be affected well yeah the younger people rushing away you know the festive you had to find two so yeah yeah yeah yeah convenient for a lot of us it's a rude awakening it really was what's your name bother I'm Eddie Eddie I'm Johnny hope you have a lovely day – yeah yeah likewise I must brake brakes it yeah we can do this we can do this we can break breakfast that the vote was just a device revoke I think we should definitely be having another vote and democracy in action isn't it all right catch you later yeah I don't fancy myself a politician or anything like that but you know really this is something I really believe in and you know if we get more people aware of it because it is going on right now even though the World Cup and everything is great it's going on right now and we have to just start from somewhere let's break brexit if we can I've realized actually just for today it's hot out of touch of politics we are not just me I think also like the guys as well we just thoroughly keep up a bit crazy because all this stuff happens and you know if you don't know what's going on you've got a really fall behind I guess and Robin though and least like what's going on hey you know like what anything that's coming up any votes or anything that we're going to like affect us for the future especially being like guys who are still in my twenties and everything we're gonna be the most affected by all this all this I'm German got to stay in like I said you know I'm not we're not grateful they're cool you guys had to get a visa exactly man being a brexit campaigner Walsh I say a romaine camera how many whole minutes were you campaigning for approximately 140 minutes she knew how lovely without just you'd be minute because it's a you know I want to be mad because you don't love this dancer oh yeah I know obviously area any reason for any country in the world you know I'm gonna for to pay for what I don't be struggling borders who does this mean you know what you want your ass as well bring underworld dinosaurs and death there's a few things we agree maybe cooking with Frank you know Italian cooks don't like to add salt what's your secret Frank this show peg no calling South Himalayan pink salt you know that's the connect straight from the can Mac but there's one specific word you bring it all down to flavor Jurassic world frakkin buzz get an etiquette so Frank Frank Tommy Tommy one last thing one last thing what do we what do we expect to see today playful at least one kid dies just in Jurassic world this right here it's Benjamin Lockley song yeah yeah no spoilers makes it good maybe I enjoyed it you enjoy go see the cinema things that guaranteed that dickham optimal very happy about what dinosaurs like he just realizes how powerless it was always testing of kind of great new things yeah which could potentially turn against us out of ten I'm gonna give it a good 6.5 from a story usually TV show kinda yeah six six yeah I won't watch it again yeah I think that's pretty special I was actually we're gonna give it a seven but I thought I was a journalist things like I prefer the old Jurassic Park kind of thing like the whales will like dark and as you know already it's clear that Jurassic Park has changed until more family-friendly for sure asset so it's not it's not what it used to be it's our view of Jurassic world what we can do now guys no I forget what I said look I understand if you cancel

EU referendum result – Statement by the Governor of the Bank of England

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Bank of England Governor Mark Carney’s statement following EU referendum result – 24 June 2016.

Good morning.
The people of the United Kingdom have voted to leave the European Union.
Inevitably there'll be a period of uncertainty and adjustment following
this result. But as the Prime Minister said just this morning there'll be no
initial change in the way our people can travel and the way our goods can move or
the way our services can be sold and it will take some time for the United
Kingdom to establish new relationships with Europe and the rest of the world. So
some market and economic volatility can be expected as this process unfolds but
we are well prepared for this. Her Majesty's Treasury in the Bank of
England have engaged in extensive contingency planning and the Chancellor
and I have remained in close contact including through the night and this
morning. To be clear the Bank of England will not hesitate to take additional
measures as required as markets adjust and as the UK economy moves forward.
Those economic adjustments will be supported by a resilient UK financial
system one that the Bank of England has consistently strengthened over the
course of the last seven years. The capital requirements of our largest
banks are now 10 times higher than before the financial crisis and the Bank
of England has stress tested those banks against scenarios far more severe than
our country currently faces. As a result of these actions UK banks have raised
over a hundred and thirty billion pounds of new capital and now have more than
600 billion pounds of high-quality liquid assets. So why does this matter?
Well that substantial capital and huge liquidity gives banks the flexibility
they need to continue to lend to UK businesses and households even during
challenging times. Moreover as a backstop and to support the functioning of
markets the Bank of England stands ready to provide more than 250 billion pounds
of additional funds. Through its normal market operations the Bank of England is
also able to provide substantial liquidity and foreign currency if
required and we expect institutions to draw on this funding if and when
appropriate just as we expect them to draw on their own resources as needed in
order to provide credit to support markets and to supply other financial
services to the real economy. In the coming weeks the Bank will assess
economic conditions and we will consider any additional policy responses. A few
months ago the Bank judged that the risks around the referendum were the
most significant near term domestic risk to financial stability. To mitigate them
the Bank has put in place extensive contingency plans and these plans begin
with ensuring that the core of our financial system is well capitalized, is
liquid and is strong. This resilience is backed up by the Bank of England's
liquidity facilities in sterling and foreign currencies and all of these
resources will support orderly market functioning in the face of any
short-term volatility. The Bank will continue to consult and cooperate with
all relevant domestic and international authorities to ensure that the UK
financial system can absorb any stresses and can do its job of concentrating on
serving the real economy. That economy will adjust to new trading relationships
that will be put in place over time and it's these public and private decisions
which will determine the UK's long-term economic prospects. The best contribution of the Bank of England, the best contribution we can make to this process
is to continue to pursue relentlessly our responsibilities for monetary and
financial stability. These are unchanged, and we've taken all the necessary steps to
prepare for today's events and in the future we will not hesitate
to take any additional measures required to meet our responsibilities as the
United Kingdom moves forward. Thank you very much. you

EU Debate | Daniel Hannan MEP | Proposition

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The Motion: This House Believes the United Kingdom Should Leave the European Union.

Daniel Hannan MEP continues the case for the Proposition, as the third speaker of eight in the debate.

The motion was defeated.

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and now look to Daniel Hannan Oriel College to continue the case for the proposition the president ladies and gentlemen every campaign generates its truisms it's hackneyed phrases its cliches and this one is no exception one of the great cliches that defines this campaign is head versus heart but of course cliches become clichés for a reason and I think a number of us feel tugged viscerally one way and intellectually the other including me I absolutely get the emotional appeal of Europe I speak French I speak Spanish I've lived and worked all over the continent 17 years I've been in Brussels I have some very dear friends there among the uric rats of course being uric rats they all want Europe to be a single country and a federal system and all the rest of it but that doesn't stop them being decent people kind neighbors and loyal friends but you can't be ruled only by your heart saying I am supporting the EU because I like Europe would be rather like saying I am supporting FIFA because I like football we need to look not at a fantasy European Union that is all about peace and collaboration among nations but among but rather look at the one that has in fact taken shape under our noses a racket which far from benefiting the least well-off as the Treasury was just saying takes money from low and medium income people and gives it to the most privileged and to the big corporations in fact if you listen never mind what the real or the leave side is saying if you listen to what the leaders of the remains either say Lord Rose has said in a considered and measured way before Commons if we vote to leave wages will increase and Lord Ashdown has said if we vote to leave food prices will fall I fail to see how either of those things is bad from the point of view of someone on low incomes but of course both Lord Ashdown and Lord Rose regarded these as terrible and undesirable developments just ask yourself why it is that the mega banks and the multinationals are pouring money into the remain campaign why is it the Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan and Citibank and Morgan Stanley and all the rest are funding the people campaigning not to let us recover our independence I'll tell you why the biggest surprise to me when I was a newly elected MEP was the extent to which these giant corporations wanted more regulation see I'd innocently supposed being elected as a conservative that being private enterprises they'd want freedom of action I was disabused of that within about a week of arriving they loved regulation because they can afford the compliance costs more easily than their smaller rivals they have captured the Brussels machine and used it to raise barriers to entry very good news for the cartel of established multinationals very bad news for the innovator the startup the entrepreneur and that's why the European Union is falling further and further behind in the world the year we joined 1973 the 28 countries that now make up the EU with 36 percent of the world economy last year it was 17 percent and falling later admit this is a maritime merchant country you know we don't sit on great natural resources in this green damp exquisite island home of ours we have to make our way in the world by what we buy and sell that means we have to be where the customers are and it's increasingly clear that the customers are not in Europe and that's why despite being myself within that privileged cast of Urich rats with large salaries and tax-free expenses I am inviting you to fire me in moment I'm inviting you to fire me I would not be doing that if I were not convinced that the country as a whole will be better off that the economy as a whole will grow after bricks it and are therefore incidentally I hope there'll be some kind of job for me to go to afterwards as a newly unemployed MEP maybe even doing something a bit more useful than regulating everybody else yes sir you asked the question where Britain strain is 50% of its import and exports our Whitney tu small countries in the EU still makeup thank you parts of the g20 you like do you see that changing that well let's look at what's already happened right ten years ago you say 50% of our trade let's look at the actual figures ten years ago the EU was taking 55% of British exports last year it was taking 45% where is it going to be in 2030 where's that figure going to be in 2050 how low does it have to go before we drop this bizarre idea that we need to merge our political institutions with those of neighboring countries in order to have a minority say over common standards in a declining block in the only declining block in the world right over the last 10 years every continent has grown except Antarctica and Europe and in fact if you count the cruise ships it's only Europe because the Antarctica economy on that measure is booming so we are really in the wrong place now why am i confident that life will be better outside or two things first democracy contrast this Union the Oxford Union with the European right the people who take the decisions here are elected actually I'm now learning that they're not very often elected they've become kind of semi Eurocrats in the sense they rigged the election but at least in theory you have the right to remove them as and when you will now I say this in no belittling spirit I had a lovely time when I was here I spent a lot of time at the Union I have massive crush on the foxy librarian from Somerville I was very happy here but I hope that members will not take it amiss when I say that this union doesn't aspire to administer half a million Europeans right it's its ambitions and its scope us somewhat more limited and yet it's democratic now contrast that with the European Union well we just heard from my honourable friend from new college watch jean-claude juncker thinks of democracy there can be no democratic choice against the treaty ponder those words there can be no Democratic choice against the European treaties dominic made the point that the European Commission is undemocratic actually he slightly understated the case uniquely we have fashioned the system that is anti-democratic in the sense that you generally only get to go there when you've lost an election so it's only when like Chris Patten or Neil Kinnock or indeed now jean-claude Juncker so it's been only when you're when you're expressly rejected by your voters that you are invited to come and legislate for them anyway let me let me submit my friends that opposing that system doesn't make us anti-european right if if Britain were run this way if we were governed by 28 unelected British commissioners who as a result of being invulnerable to public opinion immune to the ballot box had come out with such spectacular failures as the Common Fisheries Policy their euro the Schengen zone I'd be against at home most of you would be it wouldn't make us aunty British it wouldn't make us it would make us Democrats to say well we I'll tell you we have no ability to find independent trade deals with countries outside the European it's very important to grasp it's like when you join the EU you give Brussels 100% control of your trade policy we don't have a trade policy trade agreement with India nine years the EU has been discussing it and is sheltered right is there a country in this part of the world that stands to gain more from unfettered commerce with India India's English speaking for commercial purposes certainly it's common law right there are one point four million Brits of Indian origin we are the third largest investor in India India as a third investor hip we can't sign a free trade agreement because it's a lien textile workers don't want the competition and French farmers don't like the idea we don't have a free trade agreement with Australia why it's being held up by some Italian tomato growers now the Italian tomato grows maybe right or wrong I don't know enough about the case but how on earth is it in the interest of our country to be prevented from pursuing global trade exploiting our links of language and law as culture and kinship and migration that connects us to every continent and to tie ourselves to the world's only shrinking trade bloc and by the way to pay for the privilege of belonging to the tune of 20 billion pounds grows 10 billion pounds net every year my friends the European Union is obsolete you know we just heard from the treasurer that there was a very famous televised debate here in 1975 well since few of us can remember 1975 other than perhaps Lord Hesseltine in between creating the purple turtle and running the Department of Trade I can tell you 1975 was not a good time for this country right three-day week prices and incomes policies we were in a bad way we looked across Europe we said these chaps are doing something right does it feel that way today when we look across the channel now you see the European Union convulsed in the twin Schengen and euro crisis does this look like a project that we would be rushing to join if we were not already in held there by the vested interests and the sunk costs of a few civil servants politicians and large multi Nationals so I am urging you to vote to leave because of the world as it's becoming not as it was then you know I think they're classics or if it's a Simpsons Helen Lovejoy isn't it is it who will think of the children well I tell you I am thinking and voting for my children that foxy librarian from Somerville is now the mother of my two little girls and as you see she's quickening in her womb is after an indecent delay is our time of the many of the many things that I want for that child is the right to grow up in an independent country where we can hire and fire our own lawmakers Edmund Burke said that a nation is a partnership between the people who have died the people who are alive now and the people who haven't yet been born being a nation means that we're not just a random set of individuals born to a different random set of individuals it imposes on us a duty to keep intact the freedoms that we were lucky enough to inherit from our parents and pass them on securely to the next generation my late father in 1944 volunteered to defend with with force of arms our right to live under our own laws and our own people in our own sovereign Parliament I don't want his grandchildren to lose that portion of their inheritance so don't let anyone scare you out of voting to do the democratic thing we're not just the fifth largest economy in the world we're not just the fourth military power we're not just a member of the UN Security Council we have the world's most widely spoken language we have the world's capital city we export non bread to India kayaks to the unity to China we are a great country and our song is not yet sung we still have more to give tho much is taken much abides and tho we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth in heaven that which we are we are you

The BREXIT Referendum – How Do You Make a Problem Like Brexit? Part 1

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First in a short series of the major events which led up to the current Brexit dead end. This first part looks at the events leading up to the Brexit referendum and result.

all right my name is Phil I like talking about politics and in the first of this short series on how we got to where we are with bricks in the first place I want to recall the most important events as I have witnessed them throughout this whole process so brexit is basically the most self-destructive thing a nation has ever committed itself to but in terms of how we got here what I'm going to do is I'm going to start off in this first part by discussing how the referendum came about now everyone paying any attention to the situation at all knows that there is one reason and one reason only for brexit so now the super-wealthy to get away without paying the taxes that they should be so this end wealthy media barons have used their newspapers to push an anti European agenda it's particularly noticeable that these newspapers try to keep us in the world war 2 mentality with Nazi references I've seen throughout my life even though most of us in the UK now were not alive during that period and Germany has been a very peaceful country since normally ignorant members of the UK understand these references perfectly that's because they've been fed on a diet of it all their lives if newspapers even tried using references to some similar event from the early 20th century it would fly right over their heads because they don't actually understand history what they understand are these references now these are the same media barons who sided with their wealthy friends in oil companies as I was growing up by trying to create doubt of anthropogenic climate change reading newspapers you might have been forgiven for thinking that there was some doubt over this that there was some doubt within the scientific community on climate change there never was there hasn't been a single scientific paper ever published peer-reviewed that has said that there is any doubt whatsoever there's been no disagreement on both the causes and the effects and yet you wouldn't have thought this a little while ago now of course they can't avoid it the battle has been lost things are self-evident and I believe if they actually get what they want and we crash out of the EU the same thing will happen when we are faced with reality they will have to lose that battle as well the intro to see how they turn that around they'll probably just do what they did with climate change and ignore the fact that they ever caused doubt in the first place so these wealthy plutocrats have the media to push their agenda on to the people and then they pay large donations to the only UK political party that will push their agenda in Parliament but even here common sense has tended to rain in the face of what would be an obviously suicidal course of action to anyone who understands the situation until that is David Cameron a man of such weak political will that it was convinced that the party would split if an EU referendum was not granted possibly buoyed by his success in the two previous referenda along the lines of the Scottish referendum and proportional representation both of which he defeated he also fancied his hat-trick I suppose although it may not be as straightforward as that because if Donald Tusk is to be believed and I don't know whether this is true but it is certainly plausible he's alleged that Cameron never actually believed he'd have to offer a referendum in the first place he promised one in his 2015 manifesto under the belief that he wouldn't win a majority in the general election I mean how was he going to win a majority I suppose far from bringing the deficit under control he trebled the national debt in just a few years he'd overseen a pay freeze in people's wages chaos in the public sector crises in hospitals what sort of Muppets were going to vote him into government again he allegedly believed that he'd end up having to form another coalition with the Liberal Democrats and therefore he to be in the clear he'd get to push his policies without having to push the more extreme right-wing policies because the he'd just say sorry we're in coalition we have to compromise on a few things unfortunately and not for the first time his political naivety scuppered him the Liberal Democrats were blamed for not raining in the destructive conservative policies of the previous five years possibly a little unfairly but there you are they were completely decimated they lost almost all of their seats in the next general election back into single figures in fact of no use to David Cameron thought he also forgot that the Conservatives are pretty good at convincing people but they are the fiscal errors possible party even though they always reduce distribution of wealth when they are in part in government he also had the media on his side including the supposedly neutral BBC who's head of news just so happened to be a friend of George Osborne the second most senior Conservative MP at the time in addition after the general election labour elected a new leader a Euroskeptic leader that had long called for the UK to leave the EU and was never in favor of our inclusion in the first place so now the referendum had to happen he knew they had to convince people of the benefits have been an EU member but did he campaign to educate people of all those benefits oh no that would be too simple no what he did instead was to adopt a tactic of saying right I'm going to reform the EU now this was stupid for two reasons as soon as you say that you're basically admitting to all the things that the opposition are saying but not the Opposition in Parliament the Opposition in this argument about the EU you're accepting it which is not at all true is not what he said but it's sort of how he seemed as secondly of course now the EU has reformed itself numerous times that's one of its successes it's as it is kept modern it has modernized itself to keep up with the times and indeed there were a EU members quite vocal about the fact that absolutely it was probably time for some more reforming as well there were certainly issues brought up by well what passed for a debate and absolutely but Cameron only had a few months it was one of the most retarded decisions he'd made in this process obviously it could go no way you can't reform it in a few months you wouldn't even get general agreements about what needed reforming in a few months so he then comes back and and the public are then you know the leave campaign are able to say look you know he even he admits the things wrong with the EU he can't get it changed the EU won't change it's too inflexible we need to leave so we had a remain campaign which did nothing to emphasize the benefits have been in the EU which fell largely flat in fact it was actually seen as been the more negative campaign the leave campaign on the other and were very good at publicity stunts but what was their convincing plan for brexit what was it that they United the people around in terms of the post you future there wasn't want all those people who say oh if only so-and-so were in charge of the negotiations it would all be fine where is their brexit plan you show me where anyone has ever published a brexit plan nobody ever has and this is because the Brick City has learned over a decade ago because this has been going on for ages years and years they realize that it was foolish to try and agree on any post exit strategy because none of them could ever agree on anything so instead of saying how we would benefit from brexit they instead just run a deceitful campaign of what they didn't want if you look at the leave campaign website even now it doesn't have a post / exit plan it has pages and pages of what they are against but not a single line on what they are for but of course this works brilliantly they would have had no more chance of convincing people of a single brexit vision than they did have agreed amongst themselves so they spawn lies about immigration jobs and laws all the things you would try and do if you're going to whip up anti-foreign fervor as as exemplified numerous times in history in various countries they just played the same old tricks again and again but they didn't just rely on that they use modern systems they used a data mining company called Cambridge analytic so target members of the public with misleading messages in order to bombard people with a common message from all angles so it was almost like in people's minds they weren't getting this just from one source a whistleblower working at the company testified to MPs about how the company fooled the electorate in both the UK over breaks it as well as the u.s. in the presidential elections the way they gathered and used personal data on millions of people was very much illegal as the people who whose information they talked didn't give consent for it although people do give consent for Facebook to have a limited use of their data even nice bit naughty really but it's all legal because you're given consent Cambridge analytical's analytical stole the data so there was no way users could known that the company was mining their information and and of course didn't give consent for it but that wasn't the only illegal action that vote leave took advantage on they also broke electoral law in the way it passed large sums of money around to pay for various nefarious services including that of Cambridge analytical in fat form even had a young man who was given a ridiculous amount of money just to pass on to this company and and not have to put it on the books of the leave campaign so there was an awful lot of money being spent but because they threw it through subsidiaries they didn't think they had to report it but that was not true now although they were found guilty they were only fined because the vote was advisory only had it been a binding vote then the consequences would have been far more serious for those involved now just to tell you how pathetic even the fine was for a start when you're talking about the the serious wealth the backers of this campaign have the amount of the fight was something like sixty thousand was pathetic but the other I mean the thing that really throws it into contrast is I've seen footballers get bigger fines than that for like wearing the wrong socks or not turning up to training and absolute nonsense but ironically of course mp's decided to treat the vote as if it were binding this not only meant that the criminals got away with a small fine but they completely got away with their criminal acts even then the levers didn't believe they would win however the Korea brexit ears wouldn't even want to win they'd lose their only source of income you know if the leave campaign ever worn their pay masters would no longer need them so because they were confident they'd lose they were already putting into place their post referendum strategies to call for another and therefore justify their wages but then the result came in David Cameron quit and went off to France where he'd heard that they don't really care what you do to pigs over there and that's how the referendum came into being and the result panned out in the second part I'm going to explain how the election of a new Prime Minister sent breaks it down a cul-de-sac so I hope you enjoyed the video if you did don't forget to click the like button subscribe and further content click the bell notification share with others who might also be interested and so next time I'll see you later