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a pharaoh this is lvc from global leading Britain's conversation with the entail a very good evening it's three minutes past 9:00 here on LBC well it's time for the sixth of our leadership interviews if you've missed any of the others they're all on my website or the LBC website or the LBC YouTube channel if you want to go back and watch them all today we're in the company of Sajid Javid who's the Home Secretary and Conservative MP for Bromsgrove welcome good evening and I should I should explain you can of course watch us on YouTube on the LBC website Facebook page or Twitter feed um well we've got the first ballot result 23 votes was that disappointing for you look I'm pleased I'm through to the next stage and the history of these competitions are your things can be quite fluid they can be quite unpredictable I think it's great to be through and over the coming days and weeks yeah I've got to go ahead and make my case and I think I've got a very good case to make you've got to get at least 32 votes to get through to the next round what's going to be your pitch to the votes that were with Andrea let's sum Mark Harper an estimate vey well actually I won't just be pitching to those votes and those you clearly you've mentioned three of my colleagues who sadly here aren't going forward they're all good people and with lots of good supporters behind them so of course those votes in a sense we all know will be freed up and already I think I have a strong appeal you know across the board to colleagues and yeah across the spectrum in the party but of course you know that the way these things work it's not just about those votes they are your colleagues that would have voted for other candidates that would have done better perhaps even some of them had more votes than me but they will still be reassessing you know how they think this race is going to turn out and so I think I have to rightly sort of pitch across the board and get as many votes as I can what when you first came into Parliament and you in the first few years you were seen as quite an ultra Thatcherite politician um you famously have it I think you and I share something in this and that we have the same picture of Margaret Thatcher on an on a wall in our yes office and so I completely approve of that I don't see it it's not no no no we couldn't possibly do that however since then I think some people in the Conservative Party have seen you as a little bit of a flip flopper where you they saw you as a firm brexit here but you voted remain and now they see was somebody who's trying to pivot back to that position and there's a bit of distrust about why you actually come from in the party and do you think that's been a problem for you no actually you know I I don't I think in the time that I've been in Parliament so since 2010 also have held various roles and I think the reality is first of all in a lot of the decisions you make they're not always sort of entirely your own decisions I'm not talking about the referendum I'm happy to talk about that but just generally whether you're Home Secretary your business sector what it is there's collective responsibility these are government-wide decisions and you know I'm not giving anything away when sometimes you you have to make decisions we implement policies that you wouldn't quite necessary done it that way yourself if you had your choice and so that is part of the sort of compromise in in politic cuz on the on the brexit decision yeah I think I mean I was surprised when you came out four remain and I think a lot of people and they've said it to me they thought you did it because you were seen as very close to George Osborne particularly and they thought that what you were looking to the future it was a career decision rather than a sort of gut decision and that had you maybe got your time again you might not have made that decision no no it was my decision you mean I owned that decision I don't resolve from it I think at that time they were you know all of us not just politicians we all had to decide if we want to take part of that referendum which way we are going to vote and for me at the time I talked about it quite openly I wrote about it I had to think carefully about that and I made my decision but the other decision I've made alongside that was that whatever the result of the referendum it's right first that we asked the British people but we politicians have to accept their instructions and and make it happen and that's what's really frustrated me over the last three years I was very happy with the outcome I don't have a problem as it is a decision for the people in fact I said at the time that even if the whatever the decision is but even a leave decision I would embrace it and embrace the opportunities and that's what I've been trying to do for three years but it shouldn't have taken three years you should have delivered it really shouldn't but you were in the cabinet that hasn't delivered and therefore you have to take part of the responsibility for that do you know I take some of the responsibility of course because I absolutely I have been in the cabinet since that decision was made and that said I think that everyone knows that these aren't you know every cabinet minister isn't entirely your fully involved in all the decisions that went round nobody's that we do sit around the cabinet table every week and you hear Tereza may go around the cabinet table asking people for their views on things without actually as I understand it very often giving her own and then she goes away and does something that you'll a lot of you disagree with and then it happens time and time and time again and surely solve you and I know you have spoken think I'm connected enough to know that you have spoken out in cabinet against a lot of things but it's to note they've been to little effect hasn't it well well I wish it had more effect to be honest in that I've spoken out in cabinet many times and in you know meetings you're outside of cabinet more private meetings actually I say private you'd you'd hope cabinet wasn't I think private is work but sadly that isn't okay everyone's denying lots of meetings I've done that and and and I wish I had been listen to more but you know that's that's the way it is and but I think my my job if you are in the government whether you're in a cabinet or not is to sort of in private to speak freely about what you really think but ultimately if you are staying in the government you're bound by collective responsibility so give me something over the last three years or on the brexit side yeah give me something that you would have done differently and you think would have had a material effect on how things might have gone where you want me to start so you said give me something I'll give you one thing I think that three years ago when the decision was made there as a government we should have prepared properly for no deal and that's not because I want no deal I still don't want no deal but I responsible your government has to prepare for all outcomes but I think that had we done that more seriously you're starting three years ago right after the referendum result we would not be in this position today and that's down to the Chancellor as note no it's a it was a it was a government decision obviously led by the Prime Minister but it was a government decision here for a couple of years you talk to me about being Home Secretary and I've been more involved in in a way relatively as Home Secretary but before that I was 2 years as housing and community secretary I wasn't really involved specially in that department but I didn't have much do with EU and No Deal preparation but I I think that you know that probably is if you ask for one thing I think that is the one thing that would have made a lot of difference because by not properly preparing the situation you put yourself in is that you were sitting there in negotiations with your European partners with them really knowing that you had no option to walk away from the table and you know anyone knows when you're in a negotiation you've got to be able to walk away and I I've done many negotiations in my life here I've done lots of in my previous career and your multi multi-billion dollar deals around the world and I could never imagine myself closing any one of those deals satisfactorily if I didn't have the opportunity to walk away well I'm sure brakes is gonna come up a little bit later with some of the calls let's move on to what happened two years ago tomorrow at groennfell Tower because you were Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government at the time and just take us back to that night when you learnt what what had happened what what was your immediate reaction what did you do well in that I've got that is the that for me is the most difficult experience of had love most moving and most difficult and when I really felt the the responsibility of my office of government with so many people relying on you you asked me about the I guess the first moment I learnt which was the sort of the early morning hours and and just sort of hearing but more actually just seeing the pictures straightaway my smartphone it was it was heartbreaking it was I'd say you're terrifying did you comprehend the scale of it that that a moment I I think from when I saw the pictures when I when I first received a call and someone said that there's been this terrible fire it's awful it's in it's in central London you know you until I saw the pictures of the tower the whole tower virtually on fire I think that's the moment when you really comprehend this is the author the people's it happened yeah knew it had happened during the night – you're thinking people are sleeping and and the children I kept thinking about children in the in the tower you're people who couldn't come downstairs and things like that and and you're and then in that case I went straight to the to the office and but the immediate emergency there was obviously one to be rightly led by the firefighters the emergency services and I and I sort of felt yeah as a politicians I don't want to get in the way of the professionals doing their job right there and then in those in the in the first few hours but I I knew then sadly that it's it's gonna be heartbreaking and year for the loss of life we're about to see do you look back and think maybe you should have intervened as Secretary of State a little bit earlier than you did I remember way well I remember a couple of weeks after it I wrote an article which you took great exception to and I understand why I be and I I said that surely you should have been down there on day one and it's of high-vis jacket actually organizing things now I'm told subsequently and I think you useless to me at the time well actually the council were assuring you that everything they were they had everything covered and they were doing everything that they could and at that point I guess you had no reason to disbelieve that but they didn't have it covered did they do you wish in retrospect you had done something a little bit different no actually I think in retrospect I don't think there's more that we could have done at the time because in the in the in the first day so you said you should have been down then the first day the the you know the clear advice actually the request of the emergency services was dunked hmm you know we don't need politicians down here you've been bringing cameras and all sorts of things whatever we need to be getting on their job and I think you had I got ignored that advice and gone anyway it would have been really irresponsible to wonder at what point did you work out that actually the authorities were not coping and that you had to intervene I think by the within 48 hours yeah because I went down the the next day and and that's when I met local people the helpers wives council representatives and I think within 48 hours we'd worked out and actually within within 72 hours we had set up an emergency response center within the new chief executive what we called the Gold team the Gold command leader with I think 7080 other people coming in from local authorities from government within another the next day it was about 200 people so it all quickly came together we had called it out of Westminster councils office because they could support that so that all happened very quickly and and I look back and I think people moving as fast they can but you're right to pick up on the council as well and I think it's right so the the council was overwhelmed but yeah also what council wouldn't be overwhelmed with something a tragedy on that scale was I think the it's hard to think of council being set up to do that um so I think people came together quickly but the work continues to this day to help those a a reception just a couple of days ago in Parliament that I attended with survivors and and again for me meeting with some of the survivors that I hadn't seen some of them for a year you know since I've changed roles and it brought back all the memories of all that you're what happened and did you get emotional at that point a little when you're talking to people who survived the fire of lost loved ones in in how do you personally react to that yes I did I did and for meeting the survivors and their and but also their their family the family of survivors and there was a think during the exact date but it was about three or four weeks after the tragedy that the survivors the we'd set up a meeting with survivors family friends but mostly survivors in one of the hotels and I went along and the office said that they want to meet with you for a couple hours and quiz you so I went along and I ended up staying there for about four or five hours and there's no limit on my times happy to be there as long as I was needed and the mood really changed when there was obviously a lot of emotion around and I and I couldn't help and I make no excuses for it you know it's this is real life and when I reached out to people and hug them I met them I did it because that's what was necessary I come natural to you but yes some people think that you a little bit of a cold politician you're not a naturally touchy-feely huggy type politic I hope they don't think that you know that that that is but that's part that is part of the modern armory for a modern politician isn't it and that you are expected to emote in yellow yeah but it's not about to me it's not about whether it's an armory of the politician or not it's see it's what I would a sensitive human does and I'd like to think that you know that's what I am sort of thing was fantastic wasn't she and I'm not everybody could do what Tessa Jowell did I said I suppose I'm just one final thing on this and the your world Department admitted this week that in in in the past for 133 of the privately owned housing high-rises found to be wrapped in Granville stark cladding have been fixed a hundred and forty six are still vulnerable this is two years on something still going wrong isn't there well I know I think actually the the Jays broken shards the community secretary and his team they they have done a lot of good work in this area and I think it was just was it a few weeks ago that he announced government funding in the exact number but hundreds of millions for private sector accommodation as well and and that's the right thing to do and and I know that he in the Housing Minister because that's the point but they're part of it I think there's still some of these issues still coming up as fresh issues and I think as long as the government is reacting you in good time as soon as the issues are coming up they can I think that's the the right thing and there but they're still less as being learned I mean just a few weeks ago in Parliament the new sort of building regulations were announced which were all lessons learned from Grenaa and I think there will be more as well right we're gonna ask you a lot more questions in a moment particularly on the future what kind of vision does Sajid Javid have for this country with him as Prime Minister Oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven thirty we'll come to your calls as well it's 19 minutes past 9:00 the battle for p.m. follow it live on LBC MBC has been working with the get into teaching campaign to look at how a career in teaching can shape lives beyond the classroom there is this fantastic moment when they're struggling they're struggling they're struggling and then suddenly there's light goes on and you can see and they suddenly get it whatever it was and it's incredibly rewarding and it's incredibly fulfilling go to lv c dot k dot UK for more information on a career in teaching to hear the full discussion and for a chance to win an iPad air and Apple watch with LDC muscular pain ou can last all day and night ouch and newer 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party the nation and brexit the task of setting a new course for life outside Europe will be in different hands from late July turn to the Telegraph for clarity subscribe now a telegraph co UK forward slash subscriptions the endale on LBC text eight four eight five Oh well if you you're making your speech on the steps of Downing Street on your first day in office what's the one thing that you'd want the country to take away from it the one thing is that I would do everything as I can as Prime Minister to help heal some of the wounds in our country and bring people together and how would you do that I think number of things need to happen top of the list I do think we need to deliver on brexit and because that is such a fundamental test of the integrity of government and I think people are looking for that and then I think that you need a set out a vision what I would say like a positive vision for the future that has to touch so many things that for me would draw on my background my experience both in an outside government that will be you set out to try and bring people together in as many different areas so right from your how you approach public services through to how you care for the most vulnerable how you approach communities you have example community integration as well the housing crisis I think that's got a big role to play in people bringing people together and making sure that you are showing that you are thinking about every part of the country because I think sometimes there is a understandably a sort of perception that we're to focus on the southeast particularly London when you're the the many of the parts of the country to think about and and that also means things like transport connections rebalancing the economy infrastructure investment so there's a lot to it so I'd set out that kind of vision just on communities I don't know if you were listening at the end of the last hour where we had a caller he said that he didn't think that you could win because Britain wouldn't vote for a Muslim I heard that when I was outside your yeah what did you make of that do you hear that a lot not a lot but I have heard it before yes it's not yeah it's not too surprising how did well you see I think it is and maybe I maybe I'm misjudging people but I I would like to think we are in a country now that doesn't think in that way and there would be very much the exception that somebody thinks in that way I was actually quite surprised when the fingers closed called Louie came on so we would quite not take you that young man but I thought what I was quite slightly disappointed that he said it well first white say we are I mean I really think that we are the most successful multiracial democracy in the world and you know I've had the privilege to travel a lot and seen many other countries in many other democracies and there's nothing like it and you know I'll give you example when I go to EU meetings and EU council meetings you've got ministers from around the world it doesn't matter where I'm the home office this the Home Secretary the business secretary or whatever I've never ever seen from any other European country anyone that has a ethnic minority the minister from any other countries sit around the table and and and in Britain it's not just me there are many and I think that shows you how strong I am so why why are you not surprised by those comments then before I have heard them before I mean it's that we as a country I think as we've become your more modern country we have become you're much more accepting of people whatever their background it's not just based on their race it might be their gender their sexuality and I think it's great and and I think we have come a very very long way but there'll always be some people that don't take that journey and I talked yesterday when I did my my leadership launch speech and I talked you're quite openly about some of the prejudice I faced and from that your CIL's things I talked that I talked of how yeah when I wanted to marry my wife who's your white Christian and people said oh you don't want to do that because you have half-caste children that those were there words they'd even words like that and and I said as I said yes they my kids out half anything they're fully British and they're gonna play a full role in modern Britain but when you hear things like that and does it happen often now in your home secretary hole one of the great office ISM stay and that ought to send out a message to people like Louie that it is possible for somebody whatever that background whatever their skin color whatever their faith to come forward and take the opportunities that are given to them it must get slightly debilitating at times when you're constantly having to deal with this kind of thing which if it was I mean Boris Johnson doesn't have to deal with this sort of thing well it's it's not that constant I mean look I think part of it is social media in that you know if after this you have my evening with you tonight if I go and look at my social media there'll be a whole bunch of racist comments but that's that social media that's what that's what people do they can hide behind their sort of nicknames and things no one really knows were they on there they do that and I guess to some extent I have become a bit desensitized about it but I also know it doesn't represent what Britain is you know it's a tiny tiny tiny proportion of the population so we shouldn't get carried away with it um do you think the Conservative Party has a real problem with Islamophobia has become a bit of an issue has now yeah I don't think the party does I really don't in the yeah and that's not to say that there isn't a issue in your society which you can include members of political parties I don't deny that and we have seen a rise in certain reported hate crimes against the Muslim community and other communities but we talk about the Muslim community obviously you're completely unacceptable in every way we have seen that and we have seen incidents of that in the Caserta party in terms and members of the party every single time that's happened the party's taken your tough action immediately without waiting and that's what's necessary so I don't think it's a party problem but I do accept there is a a problem in society where it sadly it has grown and we need to do more to tackle it and watch our own religious status now you're brought up as a Muslim yeah I'm not I'm not I'm not practicing and but I consider myself a Muslim it's a but I'm not you know like in any religion where people are Muslims Christians you have different levels of how people might feel you bring your children up a well my wife's Christian and actually we with what we've tried is the is to teach our children about both faiths and that we decided long ago before we had children that when they grow all the it's a decision for them whether they want to have a faith at all in if so which one it is and what do they make of what you do well my my job yeah I mean because you didn't have a normal job I mean oh they're school friends probably have sort of that they have school friends whose parents would do what we would call well it depends which a child you're talking about if it's my ten-year-old she thinks it's really cool if it's my 20 year old she thinks it's hugely embarrassing in what way Wow just I think it's for anyone that for a child I think often thinks that if they're if their parents are sort of well known there and then use papers and things that then yeah I think I can sometimes understand the embarrassment and at your launch yesterday you described Boris Johnson is yesterday's man which given he is leading the contest was a either it was something that Sir Humphry might call a courageous thing to say in terms of career move I'm not the the when it comes to my career I'm just interested in doing the the right thing and then and what I think the right thing is is to go out there make my case and see if that resonates and allows me to become the leader of the Conservative Party and that's what I'm thinking of but when I when I made that comment yesterday what I'm actually trying to is contrast with the future in the next generation yeah why is he anymore yesterday's man than you well because I think that when you look at you Boris Johnson's been around in British politics for a long time a lot longer than I have and so I I think that when you're we're looking ahead only a couple years older than you though I'm not my age I'm talking about time in politics in 2001 wasn't he but that's almost white that's twice as long as I have so yeah like I said but it would I don't know whether you plan to say it or whether it just something was something that occurred to you but I I remember watching because I thought you it was actually a really impressive campaign launched and that and I remember that I was with someone I said wow that's that's pretty strong stuff I'm trying to I was just trying to a contrast with another statement I made but as a because of contrast about what I think we need is your tomorrow's leader but today I think we as a conservative party we need to look ahead we need to reconnect with so many voters and if we and if we step back a bit and think that in the last quarter of a century as the Conservative Party we've only won one majority we only won one election and that was in 2015 and that was only just and it only lasted two years and the lesson learned for the party I think is that you need to have broad appeal across the country war and the people's election winner do you think they see you in the same way yes yes I do I do I think if you'd yeah if you look at all the polls and they've been done that look at who can appeal broadly across the country yes and that's the that's what that proves but there was a poll from comrades the other day that showed that toys would win a hundred and forty seat landslide majority with Boris's leader there was a leader a minority government there there were polls that said that Theresa May would win 200 seat majority what happened next oh do you really want to revisit that question right we're gonna come to your calls now oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three such a Javad the Home Secretary with me until 10 o'clock you're listening to LBC I'm Ian Doyle it's 9:30 to Sarina Pharoah has the news headlines Boris Johnson has a firm lead after the first ballot to decide who's the next Conservative Party leader he's won the supports of a hundred and fourteen MPs 71 more than the next rival Jeremy Hunt failing to make the threshold though so now out of the race Andrea led some estimate of a and Mark Harper keep listening to LBC as Ian is now talking to another candidate the Home Secretary Sajid Javid a man's been arrested after a woman with her toddler was stabbed in the leg in North London she was with a pushchair in his means at that time when the attack happened last Friday the US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has just been saying that Iran's understood to be behind the attacks on two tankers near the Persian Gulf the government here says it's ready to assist in any rescue effort lbc where the rain in the north and west of England with more showers working their way into Wales and the South overnight clear across Scotland and Northern Ireland though with a low of 3 degrees this is lb see Sheena Fogerty monday to friday from 1 p.m. i think the opposite comment i think it will mobilize both sides enormous imagine why you wouldn't if you're this passion what's gonna happen to be three questions and they'll blow at about the age of sixteen what if there are two questions and it's the same age a photon will you vote i mean i see with blink home security cameras helping give your family peace of mind LBC you can complain free telander or the Financial Ombudsman about mis-sold PPI alternatively if you haven't got the 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invest are you cautious adventurous or somewhere in between and start your wealth of Phi epic eliezer today easing for more information download the app or visit wealth of Icom with investing capital is at risk and you could get back less than you put in iandale on LBC 936 Sajid Javid The Home Secretary's with me to take your calls you can watch us on YouTube on the LBC website at LBCC Kota UK the Facebook page or Twitter feed Jack's a first-time caller in hand and Jack what would you like to ask good evening again all right very well also giving to you mr. Jerry anything from the Home Secretary I'm a police officer and I just like to know that obviously as you said you're going to recruit 20,000 more police officers once we confirm this how would you ensure that you will get the extra 30,000 police officers with the current car limit struggling to recruit more police officers if they obviously salary is not great for the new officers could have explanation for that that's great yeah thank you very much and thank you very much for your service in terms of recupera mean first of all the reason I've said that is and I'm speaking it as as a candidate for the leadership that I I have certainly come to the conclusion that police officers need numbers need to be restored and that's partly because I think when you've seen the rise in all types of crime but especially serious violence and the and more complex crimes like cyber crime and you're obviously familiar with just how much police sort of man-hours that takes that's why I've come the 20,000 number and I think it is affordable and your question was it comes it would cost just over 900 million pounds once you've got to the twenty thousand but also to get there the the advice I've received is that it will be roughly a third each year so at seven thousand dish each year and you and you're sure you could recruit them because Jack's saying that there's problems with recruiting yes yes because and and and Jack's right sort of depends in which part of the country actually you're thinking of but Jack's year the there there will be some parts of the country it's harder and that needs to be reflected in your calculation of the Saudis if you have another $20,000 you're basically back to where we were in 2010 basically so that's an omission that the last nine years has been a complete failure in terms of policing policy no it's not because what we've also seen in the last nine years is a dramatic increase in the most complex crimes an increase in demand and I think I can certainly see that how sort of it back in 2010 2011 some of the decisions could have been made in terms of fewer officers but I think what wasn't thought through or projected and it is hard to project sort of future crime patterns is the huge increase in in the more complex crime so if I give you another example that the government has rightly also cracked down on the modern slavery and that's a your big government initiative rightly actually by led by treasom a there's been a government encouragement of especially women to come forward and to report historic sexual offences and those are quite complex crimes so a lot of this is a crime that's rising because governor is actually encouraging birth to come from no I think we need to meet that demand I've got three graphs here with police numbers going down by 20,000 and then there's a rise in violent crime in 2010 six hundred and eleven thousand violent crimes 2018 1 million 100,000 total recorded crime 2010 4 million 4.3 million 2018 5.5 million so it clearly was a mistake to reduce numbers no what I'd say in is I think it would to sort of even you're taking one figure which is falling police numbers and looking at a rice somewhere else and and just because ones are fallen ones Rhys doesn't know they it's it's very logical to draw no I would say you've mentioned serious violence and your rights have raised that this is a a major concern of mine and where a lot of effort has gone into trying to address that yeah part of the answer that are the changes in drug markets and if you ask your most the experts in this field is say the the biggest driver of Syria is not just here in Britain but abroad has been the massive collapse in the farm in the price of Class A drugs lots of gangs are trying to fight to keep their market share and you can see how that spills over to violence in our streets and that's got nothing to do with police prize we've got lots of other subjects we want to cover we could probably spend the rest of the program talking about policing Jack thank you very much let's go Alex in Watford Alex what would you like to ask good evening gentlemen hi seven members of parliament have declared their use of drugs who are all were running for the top job a comedian who makes a statement which he believes to be funny he's been investigated by police and he explained to me why the seven members apollon weren't investigated by the police they joined the comparison with Joe brand their who made a joke about battery acid which we've talked a lot about on LBC over the last 24 hours it's a fair point isn't it that members of parliament seem to say oh yeah I've taken drugs and then there's no consequence well first of all I think that with with members of parliament if they're standing – you certainly look at this case not just be neither the party but to be Prime Minister I think it's right that open and transparent about the backgrounds are certainly when they're asked the questions the Alexes question understandably is about whether the the police why aren't they investigating this when they investigate other things and and the answer I mean partly is it is that whenever the police have an investigation they have to decide for themselves has to be independent I can't tell them and I should have a right to tell them as a minister that they have to believe it's in the public interest and I don't know the exact details all of the I mean I've heard about Joe grand and what was said but I don't know the exact details and circumstance and nor do I know the details of what the the exact details what the members of pardon have said but in each case it is a responsibility of the police and if they have to consult with others to determine whether it's another comparison I'm you were a Treasury Minister one yes you're familiar with the loan charge I imagine you probably got constituents we've written to you about it one of HMRC are going about 20 years trying to claim back tax for they say tax which which is mobile and yet you have a cabinet minister a contestant in this leadership election admitting to taking Class A drugs and as far as I know nobody in the police as thought all that well let's have a word with mr. go then well as you I think as far as you know as far as I know I mean but that doesn't you know I haven't been home secretary now for a year you do a lot of information isn't always in the public domain so yeah these are independent but the position is for the people think it's one rule for them and one rule for the rest of us that that's the problem isn't it I can I can understand that I can do from where Alexis said I I do understand that and I think the the the sort of the right way to deal with this is to make sure whether it's police or other law enforcement authorities that they are doing their job to determine whether a prosecution is in the public interest but they treat everyone doesn't matter if the Member of Parliament or men you know or anyone that they treat them in exactly the same way Alex quick retort clear as mud surely the members of parliament have broken the law well that's I it would be wrong for me to say whether they have or not because it's inappropriate control if you have drugs you've by definition broken the law you admitted your guilt pleasure should there not be consequences from that I'm it's it's not appropriate for me to come okay let's go to Spencer in Crawley hello Spencer good evening hi good evening sachet I have one question for you win or lose which of maze red lines will you look to drop to get a deal through Parliament well it depends on part if you're talking red lines in terms of your staying outside the customs union staying outside the single market no second referendums I mentioned I don't know whether there's the exact ones you got in mind but those are three that I think are sort of important principles and I would not look to drop any of them and that's partly because I don't think you have to you know I've set out what my plan would be I would start with the only thing that's got through Parliament and that is the wood raw agreement which changes to the backstop and if I can get that done then I don't have to drop any of the so-called red lines I think her biggest mistake was immigration being the hard red line and that has stopped us being able to meet human freedom of movement freedom of movement because that has stopped us being able to go for if the membership and being part of the EA via the f2 pillar which it protects our trade and you're attracted by any of these EA after Norway Norway Plus no not at all I think that's brexit in name only I'm afraid I think legally you can say we've left the EU but if you're tied up to all the same rules and that's what EA in the f2 pillar would be yeah if you you know I thought you might be attracted by one no I think I think if you're gonna leave you need to leave properly what's the point in fact you're worse off intimately only after pillar because you'll have no say in the rules you'll be a complete rule take a complete rule taker and I think that's a complete nonsense for the fifth look for that when you agreed the checkers agreement didn't you I mean I learned collective responsibility but you did sign up for that No I don't think I well I mean first of all I've got reservation about the checkers agreement but just to take you directly on that point the checkers agreement is not EA and F there is no freedom of movement but it does involve rule taking it involves a level of rule taking but you asked me about EA and after and that is a whole new thing that is every rule in every sphere including the variable you need to leave completely but you've actually admitted now that you would agree to some degree of rule taking yes no I don't think there is I think you you you leave you leave completely and you become a rule maker but just like other countries that are not in the EU such as you know take the United States and Canada you take Canada you know Canada's got a free trade agreement with the EU there are some areas where the EU and Canada have agreed to share rules and where they can do that Canada is a separate sovereign state can choose to do that but it doesn't make it a complete rule taker still has its sovereignty and independence we will have more questions to the Home Secretary in just a moment it's 9:47 coming up at 10:00 on LBC Tom Swarbrick Boris Johnson is streets ahead in the race to be Prime Minister no one can get near him it seems who is the best person to take him on or should you just be crowned now Tom Swarbrick on LBC is your money working as hard as you do think about while you're graphed in a way is your money working T no and it's time to wealth fi wealth of mine is the smart easy way to start investing just say how you want to invest cautious adventurous somewhere in between and let wealth of ID to rest then keep track of your money on the appetit easy isn't it time for you to wealth fi download the app or visit wealth of Icom where the best ink capital is at risk and you could get that less than you put in with conservative MPs jockeying for leadership of the party the nation and brexit the task of setting a new course for life outside Europe will be in different hands from late July turn to the Telegraph for clarity subscribe now a telegraph co UK forward slash subscriptions you can get some pretty good deals for a pound like a scratch card and you could win a fortune but you probably won't you'll just end up with a colorful piece of card and silver scratchings all over your floor for a better deal head to cost a coffee and get some delicious toast for just one pound when you buy any media or Massimo hot drink or expertly handcrafted flat white before 11 a.m. the coffee plus menu from Costa Coffee visit Costa doc code at UK for full terms and participating stores get Vodafone's double data deal this summer we're giving away 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us TV talk to TDC about smiling a day dental implants TDC smiling the day dental implants look can work just like real teeth so you can eat what you want and smile when you want I just wish I'd gone to TDC in years ago left TDC restore your teeth and your smile book your free consultation visits smile in a day co uk iandale on LBC call oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three ten – ten Sajid Javid is with us taking your calls Abdul is in Edmonton abdill what would you like to ask hi and my question is was a psychic jasmine left out of the trunk banquet banquet dinner because he's a Muslim because he was the only let's just put this into better context sorry you said on the radio this morning that you hadn't been invited to the state banquet even though you are a whole – one of the great Offices of state since then Jackie Smith has tweeted that as Home Secretary went to every single banquet and the explanation given to you was that while the Home Secretary isn't always invited to these things which turns out it seems not to be true you seem quite angry about this understandably say hi Abdul I yeah I've said happiness said again is that you know I wasn't invited and I don't know why I wasn't invited any and on what you said about is it the case I had what you said about Jackie Smith is the year she went to every state dinner I've been told that's not always the case and and that's the explanation I've been given so I don't think that got anything more to add to it but it's not right is it because it was either because they somebody whether it was on the British side or the American side thought it wasn't appropriate to invite you to that now you have B you have being critical of Donald Trump over the years it has to be said so maybe that was the reason but you'd presumably we like to know what the reason was I would like to know what the reason is I don't know what it is at this point in time I have asked and probably hopefully I'll get an answer but I would be interested to know yes um but I'm told you you think it is because Sajid is a Muslim boys skin color or what absolutely number one skin color number two because of the fact that he identifies as a Muslim for me there's no shadow but doubt it Cleveland do you think that's entirely possible mm-hmm actually Abdur I I don't think it's that I I don't and and also I I don't think the Prime Minister would have anything to do this decision I'm not even sure it would even got to her so I don't think she's probably should have thought I shouldn't well I don't think she's involved in any way I want to be clear about that and so I I don't think it's that I just have a feeling is not and if I did think it was I'd saves I've got no reason to to not say that but I I think there is some reason somewhere and I just don't know what it is so I'm told thank you Jeff is in Harrow Jeff what would you like to us Home Secretary good evening this is a question about trust one of the reasons people be supporting you is because of the contrast between your level-headedness responsibilities cuz there are some other candidates but how can we trust you how can we trust that you'll be a responsible statesman like premier who does things as you say the right thing when months ago you denied a British citizen their citizenship in flagrant disregard of international law if you're willing to break the law when it suits you and when there's no compelling reason why how can we trust you to govern and negotiate in good faith as though he's referring to this Shamima back on the case yeah so thank you and thanks for the question did I you'll understand you if I can't talk about a particular case especially where there there may not be legal action but I'm very happy to I think still properly answer your question you said how can people trust you and you suggested that somehow that I've broken the law I mean first thing to say is that your ministers cannot break the law you there you know it starts fire I mean no one is allowed to break the law and that includes ministers but with ministers you're specifically you're not a sort of someone that can just sit there and decide to do whatever you want without any consequences you know the Home Office has thousands of civil servants you know hundreds of lawyers and so does the government more broadly and ministers can not break the law now on that kind of particular decision just asked you to think about this you know my number one responsibility is to protect the public that's my number one responsibility and there are lots of bad people out there and in order to help me do my job I get advice from specialists and when you get advice from intelligence officers counterterrorism policing security officials in the Home Office and lawyers and legal advisors and they recommend a course of action that will help protect the British public I think everyone would expect a responsible Home Secretary to listen to them and what's that advice unanimous I mean was I could because often when you're in government you've got a series of lawyers and other people sometimes the advice is complete again I I don't want to read this about a particular case but when you when it's what I'd say is this is that when it's a decision on something that is you're so important I class a decision where you take away someone's British citizenship as as a very important decision that cannot and must not be taken lightly you would only act as Home Secretary if you have a very very clear advice not for quite response from you look I understand the Home Secretary has to take important and hard decisions but the idea that denying the citizenship of someone is what 18 19 or 20 there's somehow going to a compelling reason why it doesn't seem to rings particularly true it doesn't seem particularly compelling they're not Osama bin Laden or anyone like that well Jeff I mean Jeff imagine there's X and and you've given me a given advice to that you should keep them out of the country because they're a dangerous terrorists and let's say the Home Secretary says you know what I'm gonna ignore that advice and let them come and let's say they come to the UK and they blow up a sports stadium and kill 30 British citizens what would you be saying then Jeff well there are plenty more I'm sure the government has some kind of ability to put people and terrorism's and terrorists in prison or punish them well as Jeff you get to put someone in prison you need evidence where you going to get evidence from if that if this individual X is been practicing their terrorism abroad especially in a govern space with respect Home Secretary I think that's something that the government needs to answer in assess and not just simply leave the citizens yeah I think I understand what you're saying but I hope you can reflect the the the responsibility at a Home Secretary to protect the British public is a very serious one it's not always very easy but it does involve some difficult decisions and you don't want a home secretary that shai's away from making those decisions Jeff final words me like I said I understand that the homestead to make very difficult decisions I think it's more incumbent on the Home Secretary to justify these rather than the Home Secretary questioning a member of the public is trying to hold them to account okay Jeff thank thank you very much indeed well that brings us to the end of the hour if you've missed any of my interviews with the Tory leadership candidates you can catch up with them on the cross-question podcast or indeed on the LBC YouTube channel I'll be back when will I be back it's Thursday I'll be back on Monday from 7:00 Dominic Rob will be joining us on Monday at 9:00 and also we have Michael Gove and Jeremy hunt coming in on Wednesday as well it's Darren Adam at 1:00 but next Tom's walk in thank you very much indeed welcome to the show tonight at 10:00 the next prime minister will be a man but what kind of man Boris are you gonna lock the doors in Parliament and if so tell people because we want to know what kind of leader or premise were vetting for Boris Johnson is the runaway leader to be Prime Minister