Watch the explosive interview with Labour Brexiteer Brendan Chilton | James Whale



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Former General Secretary of Labour Leave Brendan Chilton joined James Whale and Ash on their show to discuss the state of Brexit and the benefits of leaving …

Brexit | The best of Julia Hartley-Brewer's no nonsense Breakfast



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Julia’s guests include Brendan Chilton, Andrew Bridgen, Sir Vince Cable, Alastair Campbell, Lord Digby Jones, Grant Shapps, Dominic Grieve and Andrea Jenkyns.

our best case scenario certainly to oppose this deal because this deal the Prime Minister has negotiated is worse than EU membership because at least when we were members of the we had some remnants of a say under this arrangement we will have absolutely no say and of course there are all sorts of consequences on organise the first of all we must oppose this deal in terms of what happened next I think we've as you say we have to remember we are the majority still and actually there have been one or two polls we're remains taking the lead and second referendum campaign has taken the lead but the overall trend is the support for leave for getting on with it is actually increasing and I think if there were another vote on this issue we would win by an even bigger margin because I think so many people who initially voted remain and looking at this and discussed that how we're being treated by the European Union the government's under huge threat now the withdrawal agreement as it's drafted as dama Crabb said in his resignation at who is a threat to the Union our confidence and supply partners are the DUP and they are actually very concerned about the Union we're at risk now of losing their support they made it clear that their support is for the Conservative Party not to resume but they're not there last night they didn't vote with the government without their vote we can get no legislation through that means that we are heading to a general election which is exactly what Jeremy called them once and perhaps in return for labor support for the voting through the withdraw bill that's Theresa those going to deliver later what why does there have to be a general election if I mean if you can't get the DUP support the DP made it quite clear it's about Teresa Mays withdrawal agreement that they're concerned they give their support back to the Conservatives if they were delivering the breaks that they were promised as part of that confidence and supply agreement in which case it doesn't have to be a general election which you know perfectly well no Conservative MP is going to vote for which they'd have to do to undo over all the fixed term Parliament act in which case the issue is just simply getting another aan other leader in indeed but we need to do that we need to get to 48 letters when we need to push through the the confidence motion but without the DVP support we have no majority in the House of Commons that means no legislation can get through the House of Commons on a vote and that's the paralyzed government that's not going to go down well one of the things which probably should happen I mean Jeremy Corbyn has been breathing fury and saying we must have an election we must have an election well why doesn't he throw down the gauntlet and say version of no-confidence and then see where he stands that would capture the mood I think and if the government is in a weak position then it's an opportunity to show whether they can keep on governing would that not quite simply shore up the Tory benches it might it might but you know all the focuses on Teresa may at the moment but Corbin's getting off with very little scrutiny well I said what's getting off with quite a lot of scrutiny though of course this is brexit withdrawal agreement now that the the jury you are skeptic said they won't vote Labour Party leadership is saying they won't vote with the DUP say they won't vote for it Liberal Democrats won't vote for it but I imagine for all the different reasons well you know there are different reasons and I think if she was to say you know put forward her proposals but say subject to confirmation in a referendum into people's vote you might be surprised with a number of people who would support it is that a suggestion you think is being taken seriously I don't know whether it is maybe they should think about it because instead of pandering to this very difficult group she has herself she should perhaps be looking more widely I mean I'm not going to support it but if they had the additional rider of opening up this up to a popular vote and I think it might get through a parliament on you personally your party you wouldn't support it on under any circumstances well if it was 800 if it was attached to a people's vote I think we would certainly think about it ultimately she's not the problem trivia bricks it is the problem and all of the people who've been saying she should have initiation and that she's done a terrible job they haven't actually brought forward a plan that could have been negotiated have they haven't you it doesn't protect the peace process and the border in Northern Ireland so I think she's it's clearly not good enough it's not good enough for people on the breaks inside because frankly it's not brexit and it's not good enough for people like me because I'm basically saying what is the point of doing this when you're we're going to take a big hit and Donald Tusk I think it was interesting even he even though they have the UK in the negotiations he was honest enough to admit this is lose-lose there are no winners in this got the big loser I don't care if it's to resume that big losers the United Kingdom and our future so you're you're saying the only way to resolve this is to have another referendum well let's let's give it to the likely outcomes of that referendum want another closer remain and once we leave win do another close remain win how does that resolve anything if remain wins narrowly even if that was a case they're not gonna win by sort of seventy percent are they it remained win narrowly you know perfectly well there's no reason why leave voters should accept that we'll have to go for best of best of three then maybe best of five and if leave win people like you you're still not going to accept the verdict you're still gonna say we're all ignorant stupid bigoted racist and didn't know what we were doing well the first thing do you let's have a serious argument I've never ever ever said that about anybody that's the first thing so take that back and then we can continue I've never said that and I don't believe it either I understand why a lot of people voted leave however I none of us know what would happen if there was a new referendum on the outcome of the negotiations but I'll tell you what we did some polling overnight which I think is being published later today and I think there is a big movement on this I think the public are saying this now and frankly surely you should be saying this too because this is so different to what was promised you do you think could actually lead us to a successful no deal brexit oh they're not coming on mastermind III would in terms of leading the country post breaks it because remember that's a completely different question to what you said but that's what Prime Minister who I think it needs to cut with the past I think it needs fresh face not on my watch government all that sort of stuff looking at the country leading forward I think you're talking Sajid Javid Ruth Davidson because she said she doesn't want it which is you know Ruth Davidson so she doesn't want it is political speak try to so you've got you know you I think you need a brand new fresh face but actually specifically now god forbid tourism anyone under a bus but if she didn't know the words thought this out right now I'm I possibly Michael Gove but uh he's not he's not your man to go and lead the country and you know year or twos time into another world which is really frankly what should happen and I think I am barter ease and those doses among my mother's fastness I think the nation has come to see that she's a very good quality public servant I think a communication skills with a lot to be desired I think sure leadership has not been brilliant but the concept is keeping her back at the wicket and saying on you know every morning that woman like something someone pulls another forty seven kibbutz and the horse come on ahead a lot of it I'm sorry I don't I just don't accept this facility did one area where she showed no resilience whatsoever has been standing up to the EU I saw your tweet with all your cups of coffee it's brightened up with some colorful cup of coffee mugs but I think it boils down to this what this Agreement gives us is control back over our borders what we have to give in return is a de facto permanent customs union both over the next 20 months whilst we have the transition and for the foreseeable future and in fact you can't get out of that arrangement without agreement from all sides and that is why I think in the end this major struggle to pass Parliament there is I think for the Prime Minister the danger of both sides of the arguments and the Labour Party the Lib Dems everyone else voting against the deal and it not getting through and this is the Arthur grant to get rid of the Prime Minister and start again on a brexit did oh I haven't put my letter in my never never did I mean I thought if this was gonna be changed if the Prime Minister's gonna be changed doing that a year ago when it could have made a difference in the negotiations was the time to do it and this shouldn't be about the individual it should be about the deal that's now on the table so people don't like the deal they should vote against the deal but I don't think putting in a letter and destabilizing the government at the moment with these sort of crucial last-minute negotiations going on into the very flimsy only 7 page future relationship I don't think this is the right time Stuart I have no idea whether they'll get 48 letters if they do I'm fairly confident that they will fail and that she will survive it I don't see how they're going to get 50% of the parliamentary party to support them and I've always thought this was just a sign of complete desperation on their part and incomprehensible behaviour why incomprehensible because it's not going to make any difference they blame the Prime Minister for the outcome of negotiations whereas the outcome of negotiations were almost inevitable from the day they started we've got a deal which is undoubtedly a poor deal in the sense that it is a second-rate relationship to remaining in the EU but that was the sort of deal we were always likely to get since I found it somewhat extraordinary but the Secretary of State should say that didn't know how the negotiations were proceeding and about to be concluded in fact I find it almost unbelievable you seem to think that that's a fault of the brexit secretary as opposed to the Prime Minister who's excluding the person from doing their job I have no doubt that as this crisis has deepened over a two-year period number 10 Downing Street and the Prime Minister have taken more and more part of the center in in trying to keep control of what has turned into a rather uncontrollable and dismal process no doubt about that at all but that said if you're signed up in government and you're in the cabinet then you are going to be you are normally I would expect you to be able to share the documents and to know the direction of travel of this negotiation I find it impossible to believe that the secretaries of states had xu whether it was David Davis or Dominic Rob were not aware of the sort of direction in which this negotiation was going this latest news in the last couple of moments that all the Tory whips have been told to return to Westminster immediately might suggest that something is afoot and that those 48 letters have now gone in absolutely I mean I've had so many people you know the last few telling me that having a prime minister let's go but very interesting me yesterday I had a conversation over the phone with the current government minister who said they've had enough and they're also putting a lettering so you know when ministers start putting letters and you know that no it's time for it again well I mean this is this is issue there is it even if there are enough letters that go in it's not guaranteed that she will lose a vote of no-confidence is or is it your view that as many have been saying that there are an awful lot who may not wish there to be a version err calmness we don't want to precipitate it but once it happens given that the party rules bizarrely said that she can't be challenged again in the next year that they will want to take advantage of this one-time opportunity to oust her completely I mean back in July when I with a couple of other colleagues was working on trying to get letters in because you know is this astray after checkers one we thought this is an on deal you know this is not check as it and the public voted for we had a list of people whose submitted it we had the mid a list of people who said they don't want to be the ones putting in but they will vote against her when he goes to her in her confidence and then we had the others who who said no although I was thinking about it so I very surprised if she won a version of confidence in all honesty if she did whenever no confidence also it's worth bearing in mind that you know ahead deal will not pass through the house in a labor of said the UPF said so I think she's a goner anyway and in a position