With the European Parliament elections next week, Iain Dale is hosting an hour-long interview and phone-in with representatives from each of the main political parties, and this week it’s David Davis from the Conservative Party.
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Selvi see from global leading Britain's conversation with the India [Applause] hello a very good morning to you it's three minutes past eleven well it's 11 o'clock for the last five weeks we have been talking to interviewing allowing you to phone candidate candidates necessarily but representatives of the main political parties are taking part in these European elections we've had Nigel Ferrari on Jos winter and many others or today it's the turn of the Conservatives and David Davis the former brexit secretary is with me um somebody tweeted earlier are you going to declare your interest with David Davis so I will do that and tell you right from the outset as if most of you didn't know anyway that I've known David for what 30 years or so now and I did work for him as chief of staff for an all-too brief period during the 2005 leadership election which explains why he's not Prime Minister now I'm sitting right in about 25 minutes time we'll take some calls and before that let's look at first of all the European election might come onto the Tory leadership contest a little bit later as well why should anyone vote conservative on Thursday well because the Conservatives are in that running I mean yeah the the only Euroskeptic party that is likely to formally sort of government now you're for are you sayin with the Prime Minister this is a protest vote for him maybe pretty much said as much and I normally vote in elections for people who can deliver something and the Tory party you can and will deliver brexit we're gonna obviously I'm not the best person to be the exponent of the current government's line but there we are well it's taken three years how can anyone be confident that the Conservative government is going to deliver right said well cuz they're a party that's got a sauce serious commitment to my map but other than the DUP in in in the House of Commons and I mean we're going to go through in the next few weeks one more cycle of the Prime Minister's proposal I think that'll fail we Frank and at that point we time for a new prime minister and that new Prime Minister will deliver it I'm sure the you can't say that because you don't know who that new prime minister would be do you want that you will have had people from your own kin of association I'm sure st. you were David I'm not going to vote conservative of these European elections I'm going to vote for Nigel Farage um do you try and dissuade them or do you just say well I understand how you feel because I suspect you feel like that to the others both I'd I try and despite them because obviously I want the I want as many Tory em ups in the European Parliament in this very short space probably until October in which the the last round of the negotiation will go and so that's for that reason and look and I don't try and persuade them know necessarily that successfully I have to admit no and you yourself are going to vote conservative I am gonna vote conservative I was fairly conservative never anything else what happens though if you're supporting Dominic Rob in the leadership contest you decided not to stand for yourself well might come on to that in a moment but just sticking on the subject of the the future in the EU if a no dealer is elected like Dominic Raoul or indeed maybe Boris Johnson what happens then because they will still face the same problems that Teresa may faces now well you describe them as a no deal I let's let's get that straight for a start um what do you mean what do you mean by that they're both of them were prefer a deal both Boris and Dominic and indeed I think any of the other very pro leave candidates who are likely to run would would favor a deal the point of no deal in the first instance is to maintain a negotiating position and the ability to walk away from the table in that as all listening to me so obvious is fatuous you know to oppose it and yet that's that's the position they have that both of them are willing to go to No Deal but they're not the only ones I mean in Cameron er I don't think I'm breaking any great confidences but in cabinet people like Jeremy Hunt Matt Hancock hardly the most the sort of the pinups the leaf movement were agreed that no deal had to be kept on the taster why why wasn't it because you you were brights at secretary for two years and yet Teresa may clearly was never going to keep it on the table or what was it was that her decision was that wasn't that wasn't to be frankly that wasn't that apparent during that time I mean if she had if he had said in terms we're not we're not going to do No Deal I would left that moment you know because it died of always taken the view that without no deal there the European Union will not negotiate in good faith and I think when after I went no deal sort of evaporated completely as an option I think they really didn't negotiate in good faith I think yeah we've seen that in the outcome they the deal she's come back with which bear in mind it's actually worse than than a deal ago that I I'm sorry I resigned over her proposal I resigned over so you've got to keep no don't you see this is where people don't quite understand your position because you're right it is worse than the deal you resigned over and yet you voted for it in the House of Commons yeah we got to a position I mean I voted no I voted against it the first eventually you Jack it back in yes exactly back in July I told her in terms just before I resigned look this is what's going to happen if if you go down this route channel you'll get murdered in the House of Commons I did I even I didn't forecast two hundred and thirty whatever it was it's good to well over a hundred votes against you know and she didn't believe me and so we we made that point she then went away to modify it to some extent the real key modifications around or denial and she's got some sorts of concessions they're not good enough but something and I took the view frankly if we don't get something through that this will collapse into chaos and that again is precisely what's happened the the chaos of really no outcome of being paralyzed where we are which is why we will end up with with a new leader and when that new leader comes in then they'll have to be they'll have to have the most freedom possible so from now on army for example I won't be voting for thee for the second reading you won't know but again surely if you voted no it's not Ian this is not some saloon bar conversation this is about the future of the country the technicalities matter that folks first deal was a disaster right so I voted against it she got a an inadequate improvement and my view if it had just been a simple yes/no on that it didn't matter I would've voted against again but the trouble was I could see what was happening there'd be nothing better coming down the road and so we had to create the option for her successor not for her the option for a successor to improve on it and improve on we had that's why I voted for it and of course he I've had lots of people's help what are you doing you're supporting and so on this is because it was the best thing for the country now next round at the the the the second reading of the the withdraw and implementation bill or waive people call it why should I vote for that well not just as I voted for the Muslims but because why should I vote against it because what it will do is it will create the platform for people to try and get into the law the law in them and not just a motion upon it will try and get into the law possibilities of lit they're restricting a sustained in a customs union one of the things I think she's going to try and do no risk possibility of requiring a second referendum certainly Kirsten's trying to do that do you think that will be in the bill no no no make my point again second reading just starts the bill process then you have a whole series of committee stages from reports ation in which the law will be set that's the point and so any incoming Prime Minister incoming leave the Tory party and prime minister well then be shackled by that and from discussions that you've had with your colleagues and I'm sure a lot of them talk to you about this because if your previous involvement do you get the feeling that there will be a lot of MPs who like you supported the meaningful vote last time that will now switch back it how many oh I don't know that are we talking ten are we talking 50 it's it look it would be guessing we used to be a whip so you you're quite used to parliamentary numbers yeah but I never guessed I always knew the numbers that's why the distinctions are whipping in there who's that user now I knew the numbers but the intends I would think to be as close I can give you because the reason I say that it's about 30 of the Tories who voted for against the the so-called meaningful vote first time around voted for it second time around and I think both those so if we say Dominic robble Boris Johnson is elected the new leader and they are far more willing to contemplate no deal there may be some others how do you convince people that that there will be sort of sunny uplands after a No Deal because obviously all the all the economy most economists think that it would provide a huge amount of problems and there must be some those same ones as well indeed God there'll be some element of doubt in your mind on this because you can't be certain what if you're wrong what if there was an economic collapse after a No Deal well I think an economic collapse is utterly improbable I mean they're much bigger risks to the British economy than no deal one of those called Jeremy Corbyn actually but I spent years trolling through all the things that would provide a challenge in the threat and the vast majority of them not every single one but the vast majority of them were just bogus scare stories you know the stuff on internet a bogus scare story the whole stuff about drugs being short how can it be if we even if we roulette if we're controlling our imports the stuff about food beach you're all so ridiculous I mean a whole series you say that but then then you hear from food producers food importers who give you chapter and verse over what the problems would be you can't just and I see that's the problem I mean over the course of a couple years we were at 300 different projects on on the on the issues of the rise both you know deal and and and deal outcomes now there will be a bump I've always said for four years I've said there will be there will be bumps along the way I mean we may would find the odd European country trying to make a few bumps along the way I'm not gonna but there's enough about France yeah an example that you can pick your own so you may have to but but you but what you'll not have is a long run problem for all sorts of reasons and I'm not kidding The Economist you are citing virtually all of the economists who said we were going to have a disaster the moment we voted to leave and we haven't had we've had a fabulous economic performance in the last couple years great at one point five percent is you're looking against the rest of Europe we're doing better than virtue all of them you're looking at inward investment we're the second highest in the world and the highest in Europe by long margin employment higher than any time in my or your lifetimes unemployment as low as it's been in my adult lifetime or all these things and you're also seeing wages increase as well incidentally which wasn't something's being gone up it's still less than the the the average wage now is still less than it was in 2009 five percent but actually interestingly the increases have all been since the brexit vote not before you know the the previous austerity policy which we had different issues no they did not deliver improvements there so everything every anybody who tells you they know what the economy's gonna do next year it's not right no but that's the Boeing doesn't know it's a judgment balance a lot of people on your side of the brexit argument seem to be incredibly certain that everything will turn out right in the end that the economy will thrive that all these trade deals will be done but there must be times when you have had moments of doubt on this and you thought well what if I'm wrong yeah when when I when I have if you've got a moment of doubt and uncertainty yeah go away look at the facts that's what I do and then you can't be sure facts because it's the future you can have faith in what happens but you can't rely on facts but what I don't do is is allow myself to be panicked by people who've never run an international company I have who've never operated across a border I have a much more difficult one than the than the European border and and who haven't spent two or three years trawling through all the data on this stuff and the issue and what we have to do to deal with it now there are issues let me let me let me highlight one or two of them for you say you say you'd say this is clear I mean the issues of the possible choking up of the Calais Dover link that's that that's the most vulnerable link of all the links that's good that you recognize that because Dominic Graham seemed to have a little bit of an issue answering somebody else's interview the the the the there's there's a potential choke point there but the point about that choke point is it cuts both ways if the French make it difficult to to move goods into France it will lock up the other way it's the same boat going back and forth on boats plural going back with some forwards what will happen well firstly well you know what I do when I saw that well firstly what do we need to do to make sure we can go through we can do things about the inspection right so we can accelerate things through we talked to the French who are doing the same I actually said this on the Today programme on your competitors not that long ago they rushed off the next day to talk to the French they're the head of the Calais port thinking he'd disagree with me he didn't he agreed in fact he was rather offended that they had even questioned the point but they did they put him on at 10 past 6:00 in the morning so that's why I Nick Ferrari at breakfast has record listening exactly so you get the point I mean and every single come through the fax I said okay what happens if it does block up well we can move 40% of the train to other ports if need be 20% of the RORO trade and the rest in contact I think it's fruit time and you and I talk the odd thing about ports down the year well we have and I know a few things about in Bedford says I'm employed in the German automotive industry can mr. know-it-all Davis guarantee my job is safe if we leave with No Deal and that is ignore the sort of pejorative bit that that that is that is quite an important question because you were the first one to say well of course the German car industry is going to make sure that this all happens because they have far more to lose than anyone else we'll be doing a trade deal with Germany and that will be off to Berlin Berlin on day one ignoring the fact that we can actually do trade deals which has to be the whole of the EU but how can you be sure that the halls job is where they have an accurate quote from me but then that's by the bar you tweeted and how it can Paul be sure that his job is saw the first thing to say is this is one of the reasons that that a deal will happen in due course Wendy and when the Hallett Institute which is a leading German economic Institute actually assess the impacts of of No Deal outcome on all of the all of the continent it its assessment was that it would possibly put a risk possibly put at risk twelve thousand jobs in the UK but they'll put at risk and return jobs in Germany and fifty thousand jobs in France and thirty thousand jobs in Poland and Spain and that's why it won't happen because in a exactly it with my comment about the German car industry knocking like knocking on local stores there have been knocking on Merkel's door for over the last year and actually just about the point that our nerve collapsed on all of this they were shaping up to say we must avoid no deal we understand that Merkel's had for conversation you know in account course one month or two had four conversations with veranke to try to get in to soften on the on the the Northern Irish because they were concerned about it the whole of Europe is more concerned as reason more reason to be concerned about No Deal they're also more concerned with the integrity of the single market aren't they even the head of the German CBI the head of VW Audi has said we we will not risk the integrity of the co2 they don't need to I mean heavens above I mean they they they have they've got coming into after the Japanese treaty they're gonna have cars can be direct from Japan yeah it's one of the reasons the maunder got nothing to do brexit buy Honda's interest he's actually because of the Japanese deal that's not gonna affect the integrity of single marque so why should it coming from us who already obey all their rules give them that problem don't forget you you can put your questions six oh six oh nine seven three why break the habit of a lifetime it's 20 past 11:00 BC to perform at work we each need to be at our best boopa understands the importance of workplace mental well-being mental health issues can affect anyone and what we know is that early diagnosis improves outcomes so it is really important that everybody recognizes what's happening – Dylan speaks up about it find out more about roofers open up campaign download the free manager's guide and enter to win a wellness tech bundle at lbcc co uk Cooper healthy minds healthy business unlock the city with the new Range Rover Evoque no your from your no your side streets from your inner city beats know your underbelly and where to fill your belly no your 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wishing you many happy returns join the celebration at Eurotunnel calm leading britain's conversation iandale tweet at LBC 24 minutes past 11:00 will come to your calls in a few minutes time and David Davis is with us and David you were early supporter Boris Johnson in 2016 in that leadership contest obviously he came to grief rather quickly why aren't you supporting him this time well I'm supporting Dominick Rob I'm not an honest campaigner think I'm just just supporting him but the I had you know in all these things you make a judgment who's the right man for the moment really and at the moment we have two big challenges one obviously brexit we've been talking about that's gonna require a high degree of nerve and courage I mean the big failure of the government in the last year has been a failure of nerve really whether it's on No Deal or or the actual negotiation and it requires a great deal of nerve and courage but both Boris and Donnie have got that require a ferocious group of details you know we had this little skirmish earlier about why I'm doing this on this bill that's on it you know you've got to actually know all the tactics all the detail all the negotiating lines and so on I think there dominic has an edge you incredibly precise brain and so on you're surely not alerting the post Johnson doesn't a details man I'm not gonna say anything about boys at that point forgive me I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go and I also dobby's go back stories a very meritocratic I mean I'm big on social social mobility and so on and I've known Lee very well for a long time and I I think he'll be he's the best I'm gonna let me be clear I think there are a few good candidates I mean Boris and Dominick and others but I just think and this on this occasion Dominick is the man for the hour but isn't it the case the you worked with Boris Johnson in government you saw what he was like as foreign secretary and you weren't that impressed no that's not the case there then and that hasn't featured that sort of judgment or anything like that judgment and featured in in this it's a question of what is necessary for the moment what's necessary for the day and we're gonna have to do that the other thing where Boris Boris boys will claim an advantage is on the the other big Corbin election because there will be an election at some point whether it's this year or in three years time and I only think we I mean one of the reasons we did poorly in the last Lakers we didn't really have an answer what the heart went under horrible phrase that the sort of technocrats who do election school we didn't have a retail offer you know we didn't have a actually an answer for all the problems that sort 25 to 45 year olds if it wasn't the serve 18 year olds that was the big issue for us that was that that's always been a big issue for us but it was a 25 to 40 year olds who we lost in their election because it never an answer on housing we didn't have an answer on student loans we didn't have an answer on educate or cost of living if you youngsters yeah I think advising trees are made to hold that election given that there wasn't the the the the judgment to hold the election was the right judgment the judgment to run it the way you ran it was the wrong one in spades you know we're at we blew a 21-point lead with a daft manifesto you have to take partial responsibility for that your senior cabinet minister I owe you dipped your hand in the blood of the decision yes of course I never said for a second they were wasn't my responsibility for the for the actual decision to get Oh indeed every single member of the cabinet went along with it every single one so don't label to tell you they didn't on the date Oh significant there the figures in the blood but it was a terrible campaign well and and they can we can all agree on that and but part of the campaign I mean the manifesto was bad the the slogans were bad we didn't engage on debates where we should done all those things but in the center of it all don't lose sight of this key point and that is that we didn't have an answer for the people who were yeah when I was 30 or 25 or there abouts the 65% of my cohort were buying their own homes now it's 25 percent you know when I left University I didn't have to have great burden of a student loan hanging up which I could never repay you know all my children have still got this the student loans to this day I've known the to repay I I had the prospect of a great career with it with income increases every year they haven't got that yeah so yeah we've got and I didn't I didn't have the cost of child care the way that they have to face today we need we need to address that and we need people who understand that and live that life in order to be able to provide a good leadership if you also regret the fact that you could have our stood to reason as Prime Minister on the day after that election first to have come to her defense well you would probably be Prime Minister that's right that's right but but then that and that's likely the case but the first thing to say is I signed up you know when I work I mean you you know and your listeners wouldn't but when I sign up to support somebody I support them you know and it's body and soul support it's a hundred percent support and if I can't do that I leave and yeah I mean maybe that makes me quirky or strange or mad but that's that's my view on these things and I was not about to asked her and she made some big mistakes but I was not about just very briefly because we want to go to calls in a moment yeah and the big round thing Kizza bout to hit the Tory Party in June is the length of the leadership contest now you and I both remember back in 2000 when they stretched it out when they beat me yes yeah well you you were content to go along with that time time because you thought you'd win anyway now do you think that this should be a short leadership contest or a longer as a contender girl because I thought it's infra dig to start talking about the rules once the game got underway and you're and you're right of course the establishes the party and they was a ring every rule against as you remember that but I think in this case is there's a national interest issue here and this this or this this this impinges quite heavily on a whole debate around this the new leader whoever it is whether it's Boris or Dominic or Jeremy or NAT or whoever who comes in will need the summer all of the summer to do three things number one is to reopen the negotiation with the European Union on the basis I think in most cases I'm not sure what they all want to do but I would think most of them willing to go for the Malthouse compromise so the only thing that's got a House of Commons majority it's a very powerful argument for that they must reopen it on that that they need the summer because the Europeans were just say yes of course there you'll need a lot of persuasion all the countries will secondly they've got to do the prep the overt preparation for no deal it's been a lot of covert preparation Fidelio but this over preparation needs to be done the truth is the more we publicly prepare the less likely so you you would prefer it was all finished by end of July beginning of August rather than go through to September and the last thing is in the event we do get forced into a general election nobody wants one I don't want one then we're ready for that too and that's the domestic agenda which has been which has been really sort of ignored for a she or two okay so yes first of all this is a deadline I think right that's me done over to you now oh three four five six oh six oh nine seven three if you'd like to put your calls to David Davis it's 11:30 one news headlines Philip Chris cos the Prime Minister will begin last-ditch talks with MPs tomorrow to get her brexit agreement through Parliament Theresa May says she'll make a bold offer understood to be a customs union ahead of a fourth vote next month separately it's claimed the Prime Minister personally blocked legislation to protect former veterans from prosecution The Sunday Telegraph says it's seen a leaked memo in which Theresa May objected to an amnesty for veterans who served in Northern Ireland match the city captain Vincent Kompany says he's leaving the club to become player-manager of belgian sight and let his final game for city was yesterday evening six nil win over Watford in the FA Cup final at Wembley Stadium LBC weather warm sunshine and scattered showers some of those showers heavy and slow moving a high of 18 degrees this is LBC it's hard to put your finger on what makes a mini the iconic design unique handling but what really makes you smile is just it's well sheer min eNOS get your mini three door hatch one classic with LED lights and 6.5 inch infotainment screen for only $1.99 per month search many offers to find out more who's in mini UK is a credit broker two thousand bad initial 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available with enhanced active Park Assist or power up for the future with our incredible mild hybrid engines being introduced on selected models there's something in the lineup that'll serve you discover the range at Ford Cote UK or visit your local Transit Centre Ford commercial vehicles backbone of Britain this is LBC with iandale call oh three four five six oh six oh nine seventy three twenty five to twelve here on LBC we've got David Davis with us by the way I should have mentioned this earlier you can watch this on the LBC website at LBC code at UK on our YouTube channel on that Twitter feed and Facebook so let's go to a tie on weekend I never wear a tie let's go to your calls Trevor is in Southampton Trevor what would you like to ask active on Germany it's a pleasure to speak to you I'm a lifelong conservative very since 1980 a lot of respect for David Davis he's been caught up in the treachery of others in the party my local MP Royston Smith is also excellent and he's also on our side but we've all gone to the Brixton party Theresa May and the government is despised by conservative voters locally and that is not too strong a word if we do not get a strong Brixton leader and a proper breakfast I fear there is no future with the Conservative Party at all and people like David Davis are gonna get caught up in what's happened and and you know I'm extremely worried but I don't know it's not already too late oh I don't I don't think it's too late I mean don't worry about me I'll live through it whatever happens but the I mean I have a lot of sympathy with that argument I think if if we don't deliver brexit we will lose any election whenever it happens don't you think that would be sailed know the news people like Trevor who've gone to the practicing party once you voted for another party once it's so much easier to do it the second time well you could have I mean you could say that in many European elections I think just just take the Rexy party at its own measure for a second take Nigel Farage's measure he says he's effectively says he's leading as a protest he said he doesn't want to be Prime Minister he's what he wants to deliver brexit well if the new leader says right this is this is the timetable we're gonna deliver brexit irrespective of getting a deal we'll try and get a deal would be most reasonable we can we go around all the Europeans and talk to them all and I tell you the nation states whatever vet will have a very strong view of this having been scared by the near no deal then then I think they will deliver it I know all right it's two years later than I would have or one year later now to preferred it to be but it will be delivered and in the longer run it will deliver a fantastic future for Britain Italy to a complete revolution of expectations but most importantly at the moment you talk about the Tory party we've got to learn to keep our promises once we keep our promise I think we will reset this game but Trevor if there is a general election so in the next 12 months we haven't left the EU by then presumably if Nigel Faraj puts up a candidate in your constituency you would stay with him you know with respect to David I mean I'm a big fan of David don't get me wrong people like David in the part of Europe proper conservatives in a party that's been taken over by Liberal Democrats in my view but but I now believe I went to the the lead means leave rally in London on the 29th when we should have been leaving when I met hundreds hundreds of consent there to see what these people were like I met hundreds of conservative voters hardly any that weren't all like me who were going to vote for the brexit party because they were disgusted about the way that we've been treating or David is right we need this delivered otherwise if the Conservatives get 9% in next week election would he ever imagine in his lifetime that the Conservatives in government we had 9% in an election and I don't know if there's any position back from that and I absolutely agree with you I think there is a groundswell of support but knowledge of Farage who's been an excellent leader and we need an excellent leader we do not need first reasons everyone then Trevor well I think that Boris I mean I our Boris is a leader and an influential figure I don't care about what comes with him he would deliver he would have delivered bracelet two years ago and we'd be having a different argument now about how successful it's been Domenic Rob I don't know if he's fast enough you need somebody really tough to do the job for us now you know David is a very nice man but we need really really tough people out there to sort this out otherwise okay if it drags on the Conservative Party I do not know if it'll ever recover all right Trevor thank you let's get a Cameron who's ending field air what's your point Cameron I had two questions David David this one was done operating for he said that of the very start the whole British negotiations to be the polling wings handled but I know that you were learning them the detail responsibility for how the negotiations went and the second question was that you also said they're doing a deal with the EU would be the easiest deal in the world that we'd ever have to do and that's proven not to be the case and no one campaigned on a No Deal break that no one can pay them as I do but except during the debate so we look right now to put that option factor people if that's something we really considering well first thing to say is the let's do the backwards the the No Deal brixon what people campaigned on was a general idea brexit you're quite right it wasn't made very specific but some things were very plain one was that we did not expect to be in the customs union why do I say that because on the same program on Andrew Marr David Cameron George Osborne on one side and Michael Gove and Boris Johnson on the other side both said this means leaving the single market it means leaving the customs union there was no dispute between the campaign's of that so that's clear secondly in terms of the issue of the deal being easy it should have been easy we did it badly now let me tell you why we did it badly and I'll tell you what my part in it was you can make your own judgment on my responsibility yeah it's not for me to say history will judge me for that number one we should not have given away the what's called the sequence view the point everybody thought is very technical at the time never thought is a very technical argument but the sequence II when we do things when we address them if we had addressed the issue of the future deal at the same time the future economic partnership at the same time as we're talking about giving him 39 billion in money at the same time as we're talking about making sure that European citizens were properly looked after in the UK it would have been a different negotiation but why didn't you insist on unfortunately the Prime Minister had already given it away or premises team already given it away by time I arrived in Brussels I didn't know this I mean I was I was saying on-air maybe even on your program certainly on other programs during the election campaign this will be the fight of the summer only to find it's being given away you can't pull it back once you once you once you've done that that's point one second point was at Christmas when near just before Christmas of you for last when I thought we'd struck a deal the Prime Minister's team came in and conceded the so-called the harmonization basically the full alignment of the rules of the market between Northern Ireland and the Republic and of course the rest the European Union I said to her at the time you can't do this Prime Minister this is this is a denial of your own speeches this is harmonization oh no she said this is just full alignment of outcomes and I said well are you sure that the other side see it that way because there's a history in international negotiation go back to the Balfour Declaration on words of the same words meaning different things to either side and we need to make progress we need to make progress well I thought interestingly at the time I thought this would not get through the house the next the next week and I was completely wrong about that because the the house so lapped it up even Jacob Riis Mach and that that wing of the party because they were so nervous about not making progress I wasn't I thought we could go to March without making progress so and I did think of that what do I step down because this is not I thought no I've signed up you know my view on these things I'm loyal II signed up to do the job I'll try and make this work and it became apparent after March that that was about have you seen this BBC four documentary I haven't heard it's astonishing I suspect you would gain from watching that I've watched some of it but the reports I've heard of the rest of it is quite clear that they would have given away on a lot of things yet had they been pressed pushed exactly exactly I'm Cameron are you reassured by any of that particularly I mean the whole whole process has been fully handed a stick we said it and I think that it's right with based on where we are with negotiations and where we are with the outcome that that we we probably need to ask the people again about what they think should happen because we can't get within Parliament and any new leader that comes is going to face it to the same arithmetic that Teresa may say sin to so I'm worried that we're just going to no matter who the leader is we're going to be having the same conversation in time that's an interesting appointment yeah you are on the record of being in favor of a second referendum some years ago you were a favorite lymphoma tree left friend him on a deal let's get this right shall we I'll once and for all I mean I was in favor of two things two referenda you're quite right but the first one was the mandate referendum in other words and the point that cameras just made take to the country precisely the deal we're trying to cut to get and then once you've got that you you probably have to get 70% support for that so that's what I thought Cameron should have done before he tried not this Cameron so David Cameron beg your pardon Cameron David Cameron should have done before he went off to negotiate he would fare much much more leverage and then you come back and say have we got enough of it that's the way you do it you don't have a decision get the decision not like the decision because most people want a second referendum not all of them but nearly all of them are actually remainders and then come back and say listen let's have the question again so can I answer one other thing that Cameron said and I think would be a very a lot of people think it that nothing would change as it were in this round the negotiation one thing that has changed is when we got close to the 29th and we knew where they were going to leave or not the Europeans suddenly focused they had been quite happy to let the Commission maintain everything for quite a long time and they're certain that all the countries suddenly focused on the consequence for them of No Deal outcome and broadly speaking is much worse for them than it would be for us and that's what's changed and that's why Merkel's engage Merkel is said to have said second hands I can't be sure of it but Merkel is said to have said that she made a mistake back in December of the year before last because she was so focused on constructing her own government she wasn't paying attention to the European negotiation and she let the sort of Irish the Irish issue get bigger than it they should have been that all of that has changed so it was a tough new leader and it has to be a tough new leader we'll get a different thing I think okay James says hi mrs. Daylon Davis what a bright and happy future for England no brexit and no Tories can't happen soon enough coming up at 12 on LBC Majid Nora's Lord has all time for the Tories and Dame Margaret Hodge for Labour have both said they won't be voting for their own parties because of brexit will you be boycotting one of the two main parties over practising Majid Noirs on LBC on the evening of Tuesday the 3rd my husband and I were discussing how best to sell our house I told in purple bricks make you do it all yourself that was fake news purple bricks can do everything from viewings to negotiating your sale for this I would like to apologise to my husband unreservedly we request privacy at this difficult time thank you save yourself from commiserate purple brick stop dot uk' fix the pebble on instruction after 10 months being serviced costs extra see website for more details ever noticed expensive things always seem to break down when you can least afford them so if your boiler is on the blink 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nearest dealer Renault retail co uk and get up to 1,000 pounds off your next Renault selected vehicles while stocks last condition supply do you or a loved one forget things or occasionally struggle to find the right words its impact Chris clinical research we're looking for people with mild cognitive impairment or Alzheimer's disease to take part in a drug study participants must be aged over 55 and have someone who can help them with a study all volunteers will be paid for their time and reasonable expenses to find out more visit simpang chris clinical research calm that simpang chris clinical research calm the in dale on LBC 10 to 12 on LBC David Davis is taking your calls you can watch us on YouTube our website LBC Twitter feed and on Facebook Adam is in Peterborough very important place at the moment Peterborough Adam what would you like to all asking happening there there is something happening in the road you don't know that it's going to be a bump in the road you don't know there's a great big pothole massive chasm and you don't know because you can't say can't say there's not ever done this before Julianne is a massive diamonds with the prosperity of this country and I think I've always done by the saying never been before to lose now I've done a rough calculation nothing into the last six months about hundred thousand pounds an outsider plus Olympia salary so it's quite clear if it does go wrong you have to go into universal UI designs not the universe of credit you won't have to go to a food bank and I think if it does go wrong I really appreciate I think you should design your anything Saturday you could give up all your outside interest and then you'll know what the road is really like the families and people up north rely on the European Union for their jobs so I hope you would be kind enough to give up all those outside interests try not be universal credit see what it's like to up the food bank well I do actually come from up north as you put it from Yorkshire in my case not all what they do is dependent on the European Union indeed hull is the port you'd think would be highly dependent on it is more dependent on the rest of the world trade which is what will improve afterwards let's talk about the bump in the road rather than the the personal things the the reason I say bump in the road is because I went through over the course a couple years about 300 different projects aimed at trying to see what the downsides were and trying to deal with every downside now I mentioned earlier the the Dover issue and what we could do about that and they're a great deal of things we can do about that we also dealt with all the issues where people think oh this is going to happen that's going to happen and and go wrong in some way and we checked all those out and made sure they wouldn't go wrong so huge amount of works been gone into it now look you could nobody can forecast perfectly what's going to happen tomorrow but there are bigger risks then then No Deal Rexy which is what you're talking about I think and bigger risks than that to the economy and bear in mind the people who keep predicting these is us as previously the same people who wanted to join the euro if we've been in the euro today then we would have high unemployment we would be facing the sorts of things that some of the countries of Europe have faced in the last decade and my job as a to be responsible at this and do it properly and get it right last point to make on on wealth and otherwise the people who the most anti brexit in the country are the richest people in the country the chief executives and most are big corporations because why because they're they want to avoid any risk whatsoever irrespective of the long term opportunity and that's the final thing to remember all of this is a balance between risk and opportunity and the big opportunities in the future we're already heading towards 60 percent of our trade with the rest of the world and that's where our future is but Adam has a point doesn't he because you can't forecast how big the bumps in the road would be on and you say you've done all these impact assessments but some of them were the phrase I don't use well some of them the ones that were published anyway looks a little bit flimsy you didn't they impact is this well yeah but that's just semantics is no oh no it's not no no no impact assessment means something it means a forecast that I said no no we're not going to try and do forecast for all these companies because you can't you can't get that right what you can do is identify the take a company makes widgets of one sort in the north of England and it any money sells a sells abroad if it sells 75 percent to Europe and it's based on European regulation and it has to have fast access across the border then clearly that's a high risk versus one that sells most the rest of world ourselves entirely domestically those analyses were very important the point that Adam is making and I thought me if I'm wrong Adam your point you're making is that if there are but big bumps in the road in any particular sector it's not the rich who are going to be affected most by this it is going to be people at the bottom of the income pile and you would surely have always been acutely conscious of that so why take the risk what nothing is without risk in this and this is a question of opportunity now in as well as risk and in terms of the actual trade with Europe I mean people queuing over the single market is those the most single the single most important thing in our trade structure it affects about eight percent of the country of a percent of the of the of the economy of the country it hasn't delivered any growth for the last five ten years all the growths come in the rest of the world which is why twenty years ago we were 60 percent dependent on European trade now it's getting down towards 40 percent and the rest the world is going up to what sixty percent there those advantages in the rest of world are very important and they will only become available to us in a big way once we've got the freedom to make our own trade deals which means you can't be in the single market we're just on that risk element ian who's also in peter protects does adam ever cross the road maybe it's a little too dangerous for him I see the point even if it's a rather flippant one yeah I'm trying to be polite Adam thank you let's go to Melanie who's in this card in Cornwall hello Melanie hello in hello good morning David pleasure to meet you both my question is not about brexit actually about the no for a change the david's amazing swashbuckling speech in the pre-easter debates in the commons which clearly expressed the will of the house and over 170 mps now having signed the open letter to the financial secretary but the government clearly not listening what happens now is my question what make well just so everybody understands briefly mainly the the loan charge controversy is about people who were required by their employers to accept a loan rather than a explicit payment as payment in order to avoid tax and it was done over the course of a decade or so and the treasury informally HMRC did not object to it they just let it go and then all of a sudden we changed the amount used of themselves i use it themselves and suddenly changed the law and retrospectively ruined the lives of many people I opened that do you think you swashbuckling that speech with a phrase the power to tax is the power to destroy if you are in your pension years and somebody comes to you says I want a hundred thousand pounds please then it's it's a destructive it's a new will destroy your life so i said to them at a time if they don't respond properly then we will start to restrict the Treasury's capability of making any sort of retrospective action and put that into law so that's that that's if you like the threat and we're gonna have to put lots and lots of pressure on when the finance when the finance bill comes around we're gonna have to put pressure on them and if need be denied them some other bits of business to get to get this through but this is going to be this is going to be quite a tough fight Millie and it won't you unfortunately will be done in a month or two and I think that's bad for love you but when you put pressure on Tory leadership candidates particularly the one that you're supporting to omit that if they become leader this will be dealt with I will put pressure on all the toric Enders to do just that because it's a matter of justice I mean it's not just a matter of money it's a matter of justice it's also a matter of destroying people's lives you you will you will have the gratitude of over fifty thousand families for anything that you can do to actually bring pressure to those that can make decisions and make change I made a point this week that one man committed suicide tragically and Jeremy Kyle's program was taken off the air permanently and I know of at least five cases of people who've taken their own lives because of the lone charge and yet the government seems blind to what's actually happening out there so all power to your elbow Melanie you've got two supporters here thank you very much thank you that's a positive way to and the hour I guess thank you very much David be fun it has been fun and now we I'll be back on Monday I've got a very big interview lined up on Monday which will enrage some people it's with Tony Blair so do tune in seven o'clock Monday and also I will be back next week on the sunday show but also presenting our BCC European shouldn't coverage from 10 p.m. next Sunday it is what is it now no I don't even have to give the time now I'm Oliver fluster it's magic now as next Thank You Ian it's the needs of Tony vago coming up joining me live in studio will be BAFTA winning filmmaker Richard Chabad talking about his new documentary on the hunt for jihadi John before that despite calls from pro-palestinian campaigners in Europe no artist or country pulled out of the Eurovision Song Contest